Pretty Much Sums Up How I Feel About Mirrorless Right Now

sonicbuffalo_RIP

Senior Member
Going back to DSLR...
6 months ago



With mixed feelings, I've just returned the 60mm I bought from Amazon, and will be selling the X-E1, 35mm and 18-55mm - I'll be very sorry to let it go. It's been great fun to use, and the image quality is surprisingly good, as you all know.
I've just ordered a Nikon D800 and three Nikkors (85mm f1.4G, 135mm f2DC, 16-35mm f4G) and might buy the Sigma 50mm when it's released, if the price/performance is anything like their 35mm model.
I've surprised myself to be honest - after all my bleating about how disappointing the Df is, and all the excitement about the X-T1 which is without doubt the closest thing yet to the camera I've been longing for, in the end I've given up on the small sensor and gone full-frame with a conventional DSLR that offers NO traditional controls at all. Nuts.
I love the controls on the Fujis, and the light weight and portability. Love the image quality too, as far as it goes - I've loved shooting family portraits, landscapes, travel etc with the X-E1 (and the X100). Sadly though, the AF system is just not responsive enough to make the camera completely versatile, and there are no long prime lenses on the road map, so wildlife and sports (and even hyperactive toddler life) are pretty much excluded. I also have a nagging feeling that, with Fuji, I'd become a consumer rather than a photographer. It sort-of feels like that niche of the market is still evolving too quickly, and I'll end up having (or wanting) to buy newer, better stuff all the time. Looking at Fuji forums, it seems that everyone cannot wait to replace this Fuji or that Fuji with the next Fuji, and I'm sure that there WILL be a full frame Fuji at some point, which will mean replacing all the lenses too. I can understand the attraction, but I need a bit of stability!
I'm keeping the X100 for sure; it'll remain my little carry-around camera, but I'm *so* looking forward to being back on full-frame again, with an investment in great glass that will hopefully last 10-20yrs. The D800 should be good for at least 5 years too, I think.
Best of luck to you all - hope you continue to enjoy the Fuji journey!
Al.




While this summarizes my feelings about mirrorless right now and the state of flux it is in, and specifically mentions Fuji...I think it applies to all mirrorless cameras at the present time. By the way, it wasn't me that wrote that letter.
 

AC016

Senior Member
"Sadly though, the AF system is just not responsive enough to make the camera completely versatile, and there are no long prime lenses on the road map, so wildlife and sports (and even hyperactive toddler life) are pretty much excluded. I also have a nagging feeling that, with Fuji, I'd become a consumer rather than a photographer. It sort-of feels like that niche of the market is still evolving too quickly, and I'll end up having (or wanting) to buy newer, better stuff all the time. Looking at Fuji forums, it seems that everyone cannot wait to replace this Fuji or that Fuji with the next Fuji..."
This is the portion of the "letter" that most interested me. Let's deal with the first part, the AF system. Yes, it is obviously not on par with a DSLR. However, with subsequent firmware upgrades, the AF became much more responsive. My first MILC was the X-E1, so i do know how sluggish it was compared to a DSLR. Though, i managed just fine taking photos of airplanes taking off and of my daughter running around. Not sure why they are going on about "long prime lenses". Fuji has a 55-200 and a 50-230 that are just fine for sports and wildlife. I have the 50-230 and it does wildlife just fine. There is also the 60 and the 56 (short telephoto primes) that serve quite well for "hyperactive toddler life". Either of these lenses can do sports as well, depending on how close you are of course. Sorry to say, but they are wrong when they make that statement of "...pretty much excluded".

Now, let's deal with the second part: their fear of becoming a consumer, not a photographer. LOL!! Okay, laughing aside, are we not all consumers anyhow? Just look at this Nikon forum and how many people chase the latest thing. Go to any "photography" forum and you will "see" the same thing happening. I have had my X-Pro1 for nearly a year now. For the first 9 months, i only shot with the 35mm. Only recently have i purchased two new lenses. I do not plan on "upgrading" to any of the new cameras that have come out or will come out. In essence, it depends on what type of person you are. You can turn into a "consumer", whether you are using Fuji, Nikon, Canon, Sony, Olympus, etc. They all have new things coming out.

Keep in mind that the Fuji X system is only about 4 years old; so yes, there will be new stuff coming out, especially in the lens department. Though, it only means that Fuji is rounding out their lens line-up, making it complete. Does it mean you HAVE TO buy it? NO. If you want to, by all means spend your money.

Lastly, there are professional photographers all over the world who use the Fuji X system to put food on the table. They never had the "photographer" taken out of them just because Fuji released a brand new lens or camera.

I think the person who wrote this "letter", regrets going away from their DSLR, but never really seriously investigated the Fuji system. I say this because the letter was only written 6 months ago. 6 months ago, their issue with AF and up coming lenses, would not really hold water. I think they gave up to soon and misinformed. Just my opinion :)
 

Bill16

Senior Member
I have no clue what letter your talking about bud, but I did want to mention that the Fuji x100s addresses the slow AF from what I saw on a video of it when I got curious. I admit I do own one Fuji camera, the cheapish waterproof camera that seems to work pretty good for a point and shoot I guess! Lol :)
But I tend to agree with you on stability. Though models keep coming and going in these tech marvels, Nikon's DSLRs do seem to last beyond there obsolete date! Lol :)
And the lenses are good for decades it seems! Lol :)
And to prove my thoughts I love an older model the D300 and plan to likely buy a D700 to go with as a combo! Lol Not a real popular choice with what Nikon has out that's new and high tech, but they still work good even if they are old and at retirement age for a DSLR. Lol :)

So your thoughts as a whole sound pretty right to me buddy! :D
 

Bill16

Senior Member
I don't think there is really anything wrong with whatever brand and model that you choose as long as it makes you happy. :)
Nikon seems to do that for me, though I've never owned a different brand of DSLR. So in reality it all depends on what works for you, not the brand but the enjoyment of it's product! Lol :)
I'm just not into learning a whole new brand, when I'm still and likely to continue to be learning this one for years to come! Lol :) I'm not exactly a fast learner, and I'm in not hurry anyway as long as it's fun! :p

People here who have started at the same time as me and even some that are even newer at photography have passed me up in learning. Sometimes I feel sorta like a proud Papa seeing his children do even better than he has when my friends improve their skills so much faster than I have. Silly I guess, but I'm very proud of my friend here, and I feel touched as they try to help pull me along on this road of learning! :)

Oooops sorry for rambling today. Lol Anyway my recommendation is to keep enjoying photography and then there are no real bad choices in what you have or what brand it is. :D
 

sonicbuffalo_RIP

Senior Member
I agree with you @Bill16. It doesn't matter what brand or type of photography you're into. I posted that letter because we do chase the latest and greatest, but Nikon is established beyond anything Fuji or Sony has. It will be more of a waiting game as we watch the MP's increase, and the lenses multiply. I do agree though that the mirrorless cameras take beautiful images. Their resolution is second to none. I really love some of the images I've seen from the Sony A7xxx and the Fuji. I'm just happy with what I've got, (for now). That might change, but I doubt it'll be any time soon. They are still developing the Sony and Fuji lines. Bottom line is to enjoy what you have and not regret it later by buying back what you've sold. I'd hate to see others sell their FF's and go to mirrorless ONLY to regret giving up their ff's and go back to FF again. That would be expensive.
 

randyspann

Senior Member
What about the OM-D system? 3 bodies, IQ about the same as DX (I will get flack for saying that!), fast focus, at least 50 Micro 4/3 lenses to be had. And my O-M10 is about the same size as my Nikon V1. Massively programmable ala D7100, and I can use my Canon FD manual focus lenses.
 

sonicbuffalo_RIP

Senior Member
What about the OM-D system? 3 bodies, IQ about the same as DX (I will get flack for saying that!), fast focus, at least 50 Micro 4/3 lenses to be had. And my O-M10 is about the same size as my Nikon V1. Massively programmable ala D7100, and I can use my Canon FD manual focus lenses.

I will go and say it as I have before. The future of cameras lie with the mirrorless cameras. I say because of both size, weight, and quality of images. That being said, I don't think mirrorless is as good right this minute as a FF DSLR camera, but the gap is narrowing quickly. That being said, the lenses and off camera flash and all the gear are petty near as cumbersome as the DSLR. It adds up, and ends up being still a lot of gear you have to lug. Granted, mirrorless is smaller, but not as small as they'd have you believe. I'd hate to see a repair bill from a mirrorless camera. The more compact the electronics, it usually means bigger bucks for repairs, but not always.
 

sonicbuffalo_RIP

Senior Member
Why not a D4M? A mirrorless FF D4. Nikon could charge 10Grand and people will eat it up.:)

That's what Nikon is building towards....in their slow old time....and they'll charge a gazillion bucks for one! They are already comparing the Fuji to the D7100. To me, there is no comparison. I think the D7100 blows mirrorless cameras away. But that is as of now. Mirrorless is developing fast.
 

AC016

Senior Member
I will go and say it as I have before. The future of cameras lie with the mirrorless cameras. I say because of both size, weight, and quality of images. That being said, I don't think mirrorless is as good right this minute as a FF DSLR camera, but the gap is narrowing quickly. That being said, the lenses and off camera flash and all the gear are petty near as cumbersome as the DSLR. It adds up, and ends up being still a lot of gear you have to lug. Granted, mirrorless is smaller, but not as small as they'd have you believe. I'd hate to see a repair bill from a mirrorless camera. The more compact the electronics, it usually means bigger bucks for repairs, but not always.

Could you expand on your statement, "...I don't think mirrorless is as good right this minute as a FF DSLR camera,...". In what regard? In terms of lenses, i have owned Nikkor & Tamron. The Fuji lenses are far less bulky and weigh less (compare a Nikon 35 to a Fuji 35). It's not a huge difference, but it's a difference. Having an X-Pro1, 35mm and grip hang around your neck, is far less strain then a D7100 + 35mm < personal experience. In regards to the last part of your statement, the cameras are compact mainly because there is no mirror box. From what i have heard from fellow Fuji users who have had to repair their cameras, it really is no more costly then a DSLR repair - they speak from past experience having to fix their DSLR.
 

AC016

Senior Member
That's what Nikon is building towards....in their slow old time....and they'll charge a gazillion bucks for one! They are already comparing the Fuji to the D7100. To me, there is no comparison. I think the D7100 blows mirrorless cameras away. But that is as of now. Mirrorless is developing fast.

In what way does it blow mirrorless cameras away? (Keep in mind, i used to own a D7100). Overall IQ? Noise? Dynamic Range? I have been comparing various Nikon DSLRs to the XPRO1 and i must say, the Fuji really does better in the noise department, JPEG & RAW. Though, in the end, content is king anyhow. Both cameras are capable of delivering outstanding IQ. But the content is what matters in the end ;)
 
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Marcel

Happily retired
Staff member
Super Mod
I just got my X10 back from repair: Zoom stuck repair, calibration, new firmware, cost: 230$

I had a Nikon Zoom (17-55) repaired for the same problem, cost: 460$

Oh, and for a small light perfect cycling camera, the X-10 is hard to beat.
 

sonicbuffalo_RIP

Senior Member
In what way does it blow mirrorless cameras away? (Keep in mind, i used to own a D7100). Overall IQ? Noise? Dynamic Range? I have been comparing various Nikon DSLRs to the XPRO1 and i must say, the Fuji really does better in the noise department, JPEG & RAW. Though, in the end, content is king anyhow. Both cameras are capable of delivering outstanding IQ. But the content is what matters in the end ;)

Well....I don't mean by image rendered. I mean the D7100 and most of the DSLR's have a more thorough menu of options to fine tune and tweak your camera, not to mention the viewfinder, which is a pentaprism on the D7100 and D610. I like to look through my viewfinder, but I know mirrorless is making inroads on that front. I just like the flexibility of the menu system on the DSLR's. I don't, in no means, mean the DSLR's blow the mirrorless away in IQ. The mirrorless IQ is terrific for the most part, and some would say that the mirrorless outperforms the DSLR's when you compare image to image. I also don't like the chincy looking flash units on mirrorless and the off camera flash units aren't much better. As for as their performance, I don't really know, but my SB-910 is one heck of a unit. I don't think the mirrorless CMOS sensors really compare with full frame ones. I know Sony has a full frame sensor for their A7xx series. or A8xx series, I'm not sure. Mirrorless has come a long way, but to get the settings that I have available for my D7100 and D610, and remember I don't own one, but only know what I've read on other forums, I would say mirrorless has a ways to go to get the same ability to set your camera up the same way I can on my 2 present cameras. Correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm still learning about the mirrorless cameras myself. I saw quite a few images from the Sony Nex line and the only fault I could see was the blues were a little strong. The Fuji seems to have a great color balance.
 

Nero

Senior Member
I feel that Mirrorless cameras in some areas are developing fast but as a whole they still have a while before they can compare to DSLR's. And even when they do, most people won't want to completely change systems, they'll stick to what's familiar.

For now, size and weight are the only indisputable advantages mirrorless has over DSLR. To me anyway.
 

sonicbuffalo_RIP

Senior Member
I just got my X10 back from repair: Zoom stuck repair, calibration, new firmware, cost: 230$

I had a Nikon Zoom (17-55) repaired for the same problem, cost: 460$

Oh, and for a small light perfect cycling camera, the X-10 is hard to beat.

Marcel, I guess we'll be losing you too, to the Fuji forums (lol). I know better than to say that! Nikon would miss you too much. :)
 

AC016

Senior Member
Well....I don't mean by image rendered. I mean the D7100 and most of the DSLR's have a more thorough menu of options to fine tune and tweak your camera, not to mention the viewfinder, which is a pentaprism on the D7100 and D610. I like to look through my viewfinder, but I know mirrorless is making inroads on that front. I just like the flexibility of the menu system on the DSLR's. I don't, in no means, mean the DSLR's blow the mirrorless away in IQ. The mirrorless IQ is terrific for the most part, and some would say that the mirrorless outperforms the DSLR's when you compare image to image. I also don't like the chincy looking flash units on mirrorless and the off camera flash units aren't much better. As for as their performance, I don't really know, but my SB-910 is one heck of a unit. I don't think the mirrorless CMOS sensors really compare with full frame ones. I know Sony has a full frame sensor for their A7xx series. or A8xx series, I'm not sure. Mirrorless has come a long way, but to get the settings that I have available for my D7100 and D610, and remember I don't own one, but only know what I've read on other forums, I would say mirrorless has a ways to go to get the same ability to set your camera up the same way I can on my 2 present cameras. Correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm still learning about the mirrorless cameras myself. I saw quite a few images from the Sony Nex line and the only fault I could see was the blues were a little strong. The Fuji seems to have a great color balance.

Yes, the pentaprism!!! +1 to that! That is the reason i sold my X-E1 and got the X-Pro1. The X-Pro1 has an optical viewfinder. However, because of parralax, you can not use a lens that is less then 18mm in focal length or greater then 60mm. If you do, the frame lines turn red - you can still take a photo though. You are right about the flash systems. The OEM ones are not all that great, but they are functional. Though, the intelligent flash on the X100 and X10 are absolutely brilliant! I think the manufacturer is trying to keep the size of the flashes, relative to the camera. But, they are sacrificing many things by doing that. A lot of Fuji users resort to using their Nikon flashes. In regards to setting up the camera/menus, maybe i am old or just plain forget, but i don't really remember what a Nikon menu looks like. In regards to Fuji, i find that i can fine tune my X-Pro1 just as much as i did my D7100. Though, i could not say if one has more features then the other. To answer the last part of your post, i think all cameras have different color rendering (Nikon, Canon, Sony... ). Fuji seems to have their colors well tuned.
 

sonicbuffalo_RIP

Senior Member
Back when I was shooting film, I always bought Fuji Film because their film 'popped' more than Kodak's. I loved the resolution of Fuji, and I'm glad it has carried over to their cameras.
 

AC016

Senior Member
Back when I was shooting film, I always bought Fuji Film because their film 'popped' more than Kodak's. I loved the resolution of Fuji, and I'm glad it has carried over to their cameras.

Yep, they have film simulations built into their cameras. ProNeg, Velvia, Provia, etc. Could not tell you if it comes close to the real thing though, lol.
 

Marcel

Happily retired
Staff member
Super Mod
Marcel, I guess we'll be losing you too, to the Fuji forums (lol). I know better than to say that! Nikon would miss you too much. :)

No, I don't think I'll be jumping ship. But, for a travel companion, the X-10 feels just right for me. Less worries, more pictures. But it will never replace the feel of a DSLR, nor the IQ (IMHO). :)
 

AC016

Senior Member
No, I don't think I'll be jumping ship. But, for a travel companion, the X-10 feels just right for me. Less worries, more pictures. But it will never replace the feel of a DSLR, nor the IQ (IMHO). :)

Yeah, that little 2/3" sensor is not going to beat out an APS-C sensor. Though, i think it holds it's own.

Shot with the X-10 at f/8, ISO 1250, 1/180s & 28mm (35mm equiv) focal length.

dscf4014.jpg
 
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