ND Filters - too many choices

Fortkentdad

Senior Member
I'm thinking I "need" a ND filter of some sort.

Thought of the Cokin "P" series. Somewhere around $100 for an ND Kit + rings for each diameter I want to use. (Hear you can buy a cheap kit just for the full set of rings and they work fine??) But looks kinda bulky. On the other hand lots of optional square filters you can add later for creative effects (most you can get pp anyway???. Yes Lee is better but not spending that much money.

Considered a fixed ND filter - maybe a 10 stop or something like that and just use the one. Or a set of three (Hoya and Tiffen offer sets with 2 - 4 - 6 stackables). Maybe???

Many recommend the Faders

Looked at Faders. Cheap Fotga (and it gets some 'ok' youtuber reviews). $20 down by d'Bay comes to you on the slow boat from China - in about a month or two.

Some 'lesser' brands such as Cameron (Henry's wants $150 for an 82mm) or Optix from London Drugs - similar price. Promaster (basic one) $90.00.

Or do I spend twice as much for a Hoya or Tiffen (both coming in at $280ish for an 82mm). See a Cokin "Harmonie" ND fader 82mm for $190. Hmmmm? top end of what I might spend. And then I need step down rings (about three or four).

The 82 fits my 24-70 so my most likely use.

And I wonder if this will end up sitting in my collection of "I thought that be nice to have but now never use it" drawer?
 

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
If you're only thinking about your "need" and haven't done anything yet then just do this...

Buy one really good 9 or 10 stop filter at 77mm (or larger if you have a lens with a bigger filter size) and a set of step down rings for any other filter size you need.

If you "need" anything else it will become apparent when you're out and say, "God, I wish I had..." That's only happened to me once, and my wish was for 3 more stops, so now I carry both the 9 stop I use all the time and the 3 stop I got with my set of ND2-4-6 filters (the 1 and 2 stop never come out of the drawer).

And whatever you do don't buy a variable ND!!!
 

hark

Administrator
Staff member
Super Mod
Contributor
If you are looking to make moving water appear smooth and silky, look at either a 9- or 10-stop ND filter. I haven't used the fader type myself, but some Nikonites said the ND effect is splotchy (uneven) when rotated to a certain point. If you are going to use it on a wide angle lens, they do make slim profile filters (thinner front to back) to cut down on vignetting. The 9- and 10-stop filters are very dark. You need to compose your image and determine your exposure before adding the filter. It helps to switch to manual focus as otherwise it is too dark to see through, and the camera can't focus.

As I previewed what I wrote, I see Jake sneaked in and posted. ;) Lol!
 

Fred Kingston

Senior Member
I use a knock-off Cokin "P" system... The only real Cokin plastic I own is a Red filter and the Cir. Polarizer... Other than that, the $12 ring set is exactly the same as the real Cokin rings... I did have to scrounge around for a small bag to hold everything which I can either leave home, or attach to a camera bag if I'm out and about... The plastic ND filters are fine (I keep my Nikonites member rag in the bag with the filters) The Cokins require some forethought about what you're doing... because you can't exactly just slap it on a camera as an afterthought... but, for me, the flexibility of choices, and cost is good.

I have a circular ND filter, and I rarely even carry it...
 

Fortkentdad

Senior Member
That's a heck of a price difference compared to here.
You can pick up a Hoya ProND 1000 82mm here for ~$130 (Canadian $)

And by "here" you mean where? I searched and did not find it in Nikonites Marketplace.


Henry's price on this is $185 CDN
B&H is $170 plus import fees about the same (yes free shipping to Canada but they charge a different fee which is about the same).
Amazon.CA wants $198 (from Langton Distribution - my google of that returned lots of unhappy customer reviews for their service).

From eBay I can get a Hoya - see more 400's than 1,000's. Still $150 + custom fees $17 US so $167 x 1.4 so way over the top.
Best is for $92 ($130 CDN) from South Korea eBay site. and that is for a 400 not 1000.

But will think more about whether a fader is better or if I shouldn't go for a fixed ND (400 or 1000 or ?)
And there is that one chap happy with the Cokin - even the cheap imitation Cokins - and since I'd use the rings may be worth the $20 to find out if I like that sort of effect?

Thanks for all who replied.

And yes this is to smooth water.
I also think it cool how you can use it to make passer-bys disappear (works sort of I'm told).
 

Fortkentdad

Senior Member
Just for clarity, with the Cokin holder, you can add/combine up to 3 different filters at once...

These certainly provide max creative options for least dollars (if you stay away from the high end Lee)

And there are so many cheap knock offs. You are saying you are using the cheapies and they are just fine. I wonder if there are any differences between brands or are they pretty much all the same with different names. Fotga, Neewer, XSource, K&F, Goja, and so on.

Some offer handy gadgets, a few come with cases. Price $30-$80 depending on the kit

Amazon.CA has the Cokin P kit with the 3 ND filters (not grad) for about $100 (same as some Canadian retailers).

Bulky - and as you say not something you slap on but a deliberate effort to get a particular image.

I do read that these plates have to be handled with care as they scratch easily.

Hmmmm.... still thinking on this.
 

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
Once again I must emphasize, do not get a variable ND. They're crap after 6 stops, even the good ones (banding like mad - it's opposing polarization and cannot be avoided in something that small and circular), and will affect colors more and more the higher you go.

Adding on, stacking filters, even good filters, means more stuff between you and your subject. I can easily entertain the idea that one so-so 10 stop ND can yield a result equal to or even better than stacking 3 or 4 good filters in front of your lens.
 

Roy1961

Senior Member
Contributor
I recently bought a 70-300 Nikon, I got a luminesque polarizer filter free with it, what if any will this do for me? I don't know Jack about them and its still in the box unopened.
 

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
I recently bought a 70-300 Nikon, I got a luminesque polarizer filter free with it, what if any will this do for me? I don't know Jack about them and its still in the box unopened.

If you open it and take it out it will work great as a coaster. ;)

A CPF is generally something you'll use outdoors for landscapes or water situations. It impacts directional light and can reduce the brightness of a blue sky or eliminate reflections off the top of water allowing you to better see into it. Put it on the end of the lens and rotate it on a sunny day and see how it impacts the image. Not something you want to keep on there all the time as it can make normal light appear flat, but it has its applications.

To be clear, while it can have a similar impact on the sky, a CPF is very different from a graduated ND. The latter applies fixed exposure compensation to a part of the frame, while the CPF blocks directional light from a particular direction based on how the 2 filter layers are aligned and impacts the entire frame.

And given that B&H sell a set of 82mm CPF and UV for $50 I suspect that it's not the best quality filter to use for these applications, so my coaster comment stands.
 
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Fortkentdad

Senior Member
I recently bought a 70-300 Nikon, I got a luminesque polarizer filter free with it, what if any will this do for me? I don't know Jack about them and its still in the box unopened.

I have a couple of these polarizers.

Only time I use it is for bright snow shots (which given where I live is only five or six months of the year).

Also useful out on the lake to reduce glare.

Has not been out of it's box for over a year now. Do not have one for my larger lenses and would not buy one for them.
 

Fortkentdad

Senior Member
Once again I must emphasize, do not get a variable ND. They're crap after 6 stops, even the good ones (banding like mad - it's opposing polarization and cannot be avoided in something that small and circular), and will affect colors more and more the higher you go.

Adding on, stacking filters, even good filters, means more stuff between you and your subject. I can easily entertain the idea that one so-so 10 stop ND can yield a result equal to or even better than stacking 3 or 4 good filters in front of your lens.


To get that silky water effect a 10 stopper is what you'd recommend then.

Tempted by the Cokin but fear it would collect dust as it looks like too much effort, but .....

So down to a big stopper (at least 8, maybe 10) 82mm good one, or go Cokin. Hmmmmm
 

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
To get that silky water effect a 10 stopper is what you'd recommend then.

Tempted by the Cokin but fear it would collect dust as it looks like too much effort, but .....

So down to a big stopper (at least 8, maybe 10) 82mm good one, or go Cokin. Hmmmmm

On a bright day a 9 or 10 stop is a must if you want to stop the water. Depending on what aperture you want to shoot (i.e. do you want to shoot wider than f11?) having an additional 3 stop is nice too, but start with the 9 or 10 and see what that does for you. Except on the brightest of days it's been enough for me.
 

Fortkentdad

Senior Member
My quest continues

I do have some ultra wide lenses (well as in a 17mm and 20mm zoom) I think that qualifies. Both are 77 mm. My best wide one is the Tammy 24-70. It is an 82mm thread. From what I've read about landscape photography it seems people tend to go wide for the most part. For longer shots I'd probably use my 70-200 2.8, also 77mm. So for a circular ND stopper I've decided on the ICE 82 with a step down ring to 77. I also have an 58 Hoya 8 stop which I can use on my antique 28-80 which is 58, or using a step down ring put it on my 50mm 1.8. That's what I plan on doing re: circular ones. The ICE I want was out of stock the last time I ordered. This would be to get those smooth silky water shots and some special effect shots.

But the more I read about landscape photography and filters the more I'm convinced I "need" a graduated ND. Seems the sky and land are seldom the same brightness and either you expose for the sky or you expose for the land, and one or the other will be off.

Looked at Cokin P series (and other 84mm filter systems) but they will not work well on a full frame under 24 (some say down to 20?) But not 17mm. Given I want to go that low (that wide) I'd not want to limit myself. I also read that Cokin filters tend to have a pink colour cast. I think I'll pass on Cokin P at least.

Cokin Z - works better on FF cameras and goes wider because it is bigger. Colour cast would be the same. This holder also takes other brands of filters but some have said Lee filters don't fit well on Cokin holders.

Formatt Hitech - gets mixed reviews, some like them, some don't (suppose that is true of almost everything). Certainly presented as an options for those who want better than Cokin, but don't want to fork over the dollars for a Lee system.

Lee it seems is the best of the lot. But you pay more.

I'm watching for a Lee set on sale, or may go for a Formatt Hitech set.

Formatt Hitech 77mm starter kit: $257 CDN: Formatt Hitech 100 x 125mm Soft-Edge Graduated ND HT100NDGSK77

For almost $200 more I can get the Lee starter kit - no ring included: $407 + $44 for 77mm ring: LEE Filters Digital SLR Starter Kit SET-RESIN-DIGI B&H Photo

By comparison the Cokin Z-Pro Kit is $191 - no ring and coloured grad set (could be interesting?) Cokin Z-PRO Grad Filter Kit CU961 B&H Photo Video

Have not looked into the Cokin X-Pro that much, that starter is $355 with three ND Grad filters Cokin X-Pro W960 Pro Graduated Neutral Density Filter Kit CW960

I did find that I may save a bit by ordering direct from the UK for Formatt Hitech - and they have more selection of their stuff than B&H.

Still muddled.
 

lostnomore

Senior Member
Speaking of too many choices, I usually try to narrow things down by going to sites like B&H. It was there that I found very positive reviews for a Genustech variable ND filter. I don't tend to buy a name I've never heard of, but this one had such good reviews that I decided to take the plunge. Thus far I am very pleased with my choice. Yes, the dreaded X will appear on any variable ND after a certain point, but everything else about it is great.
 
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