Slightly out of depth with a d5000 to d500 move

[Bingo76]

Sorry aware this is a 'all the gear, no idea' kinda post
Looking for some advice please. Still very much an amateur, mainly taking shots of outdoor kids sports games (GAA and rugby). I was having some decent success with my 15yr old D5000 and 70-300mm lens and was producing some nice shots - although I was always simply using Auto or Sports mode (with no other customisation at all)
I took the plunge at the weekend and bought a D500 which I know is way beyond me, but is gorgeous and I'll hopefully grow into (and never out of!)
I've just come back from a sports shoot now, and while some of the pics are amazing, I had a much better good:bad pic ratio with my d5000. Lots of blurred/not so sharp pics
I know I'll need to invest a decent amount of time learning the camera, but does anyone have some advice on good shortcut settings, while I'm still getting up to speed.

I was use P shooting mode, Qc release, AF-C Grp focus mode.

Any thoughts/advice very welcome!

NB - Still have the D5000 as a backup

 

[Needa]

Welcome!
Just a couple of points. You are going from 12 MP to 21MP and from having an anti-aliasing filter to none, it may take some time to adjust. Which 70-300 are you using? I'm sure some of the d500 shooter will be around to offer advice. It might be helpful if you post some of your hits and misses for comparison.

 

[Bingo76]

Hiya - thanks for this. Not that I'm a newbie, but had to google anti-aliasing (although I'd heard the expression before).

Am using the Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 G IF-ED VR. On this - a somewhat unrelated question. The D500 has an inbuilt focus motor/drive (apols if wrong term). I've actually an older AF Nikkor 70-300mm 1:4-5.6G lens that I was gifted as well - but I never used that on my D5000 as it was manual focus. I've played with it on the D500 and it auto-focuses super well - should I be using it? With the absence of VR, I'm just assuming the new lens is better?

Will upload some pics later along with comments of what I hoped to see, vs what I did see.
Thanks again for your input, much appreciated.

 

[Needa]

I would be using the VR lens.

 

[Marilynne]

Welcome!

Please feel free to start your own thread here - https://nikonites.com/forum/forums/project-365-daily-photos.55/post-thread

 

[Clovishound]

The VR version is much higher rated than the older non VR lens. My daughter has the VR version, and it is a good performer IMO.

 

[D'Grump]

I went from a D70 to a D7100 to a D500, and when I got the D500, I also got A book called “Mastering the D500” by Darrell Young, and it is loaded with information and explanations. I would advise getting either that one or one that’s similar. It’s proved quite helpful to me, and I reference it quite a lot.
You’ve gotta know that with a “screwdriver type” autofocus lens, that the focusing will be a bit slower than a lens that has a built in motor.
Also check to be sure that the camera is set to “focus + release”. If it’s not, that might be at least part of the problem. Those can be found in custom setting a1 and a2. when set to “ focus + release” the camera insures that correct focus has been achieved before releasing the shutter. Get into the menu-scroll down to the pencil icon on the left side of the screen-scroll to the right and select “a1”, then scroll to select “focus + release”. Scroll back out to the custom setting menu, select a2, and repeat the previous steps for that one. You might want to change one or both as you get more experience with how the camera operates, but to solve your problem, this should be one of the first steps you do. Let us know what you find, and how the changes work out.
And by the way, Welcome to Nikonites!
Andy
Edited to ad: Just remember that VR is your friend, and to make sure the lens switch is set for the VR to be on, and NOT to off, if the lens has a switch. You might want to switch it off in certain situations, but for troubleshooting this issue, leave it on and just use the VR lens.

 

[D'Grump]

Welcome!
Just a couple of points. You are going from 12 MP to 21MP and from having an anti-aliasing filter to none, it may take some time to adjust. Which 70-300 are you using? I'm sure some of the d500 shooter will be around to offer advice. It might be helpful if you post some of your hits and misses for comparison.

I went from a D70 to a D7100 to a D500, and when I got the D500, I also got A book called “Mastering the D500” by Darrell Young, and it is loaded with information and explanations. I would advise getting either that one or one that’s similar. It’s proved quite helpful to me, and I reference it quite a lot.
You’ve gotta know that with a “screwdriver type” autofocus lens, that the focusing will be a bit slower than a lens that has a built in motor.
Also check to be sure that the camera is set to “focus + release”. If it’s not, that might be at least part of the problem. Those can be found in custom setting a1 and a2. when set to “ focus + release” the camera insures that correct focus has been achieved before releasing the shutter. Get into the menu-scroll down to the pencil icon on the left side of the screen-scroll to the right and select “a1”, then scroll to select “focus + release”. Scroll back out to the custom setting menu, select a2, and repeat the previous steps for that one. You might want to change one or both as you get more experience with how the camera operates, but to solve your problem, this should be one of the first steps you do. Let us know what you find, and how the changes work out.
And by the way, Welcome to Nikonites!
Andy
Edited to ad: Just remember that VR is your friend, and to make sure the lens switch is set for the VR to be on, and NOT to off, if the lens has a switch. You might want to switch it off in certain situations, but for troubleshooting this issue, leave it on and just use the VR lens.

One other thought. Do you have a tripod that you can use? If so, mount the camera on the tripod, put the camera in ”P”rogram mode, and take some pictures using the self timer feature to minimize camera shake. We’re just trying to find out if it’s the camera/lens, or your technique that’s causing the issue.
Also, put the release mode dial into “S” for single shot, and NOT Qc (continuous quiet).
Andy

 

[Peter7100]

IMO I would shoot handheld with it set to Continous High release to take advantage of the 10 frames per second, rather than the Quiet mode. It is really not that noisy especially in an outdoor environment. I also find manual mode (M) better than P mode, with a fast shutter speed, maybe 1/2000 and an aperture somewhere between 5.6 and 8 and have your iso set to auto iso. Then you are ready just to shoot and the auto iso will adjust as required without you having to over think it.
I would give the above a try and see if you find any improvement.

 

[Dawg Pics]

Another site to check is Backcountry Gallery. Steve Perry explains everything about the D500 focusing system.
One thing to be aware of with the D500. Nikon changed the ability to track a subject when it leaves a focus point. Here is a link to an article that discusses that, which might help you with your settings or to understand why you might be having a keeper-rate issue.

Nikon D500 Focus Bug

Discussioin of the famous Nikon D500 dynamic-area focus bug that Nikon never fixed.

www.photoartfromscience.com

 

[Bingo76]

Wow - thanks for all the advice - this is a super helpful/active forum

Here are some images I took, along with my thoughts. Obviously some of these may be down to technique rather than hardware, but all feedback greatly appreciated. I'm trying to move from a spray and prey technique!

First off, one I'd consider good/acceptable:

Now on this one - I haven't got the lighting right - too much brightness / shadow. Not sure if my technique, but I have a nagging feeling the auto mode on the d5000 would have resulted in a better pic (and I'm not sure what to tweak on the d500 to compensate):

The next two were taken in sequence. First one in focus, and the next one (which could have been a great pic) just a little out of focus:

And finally a random out of focus shot. Not sure why, but I had a lot of these:

All of these were taken on P shooting mode, Qc release, AF-C Grp focus mode - with a Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 G IF-ED VR lens

 

[Needa]

Here are my observations and worth every penny you payed for them.

2nd photo mainly harsh lighting (midday shot)

The last three use a higher shutter speed. 250? Once you get familiar with how the camera handles you may be able to go down. I went from a d5100 to a d7100 I found I need a faster shutter speed. Practice panning with this camera and don't be tempted to use the other one until you have a good handle on this one. Turn on your focus point in the play back mode so you can see where it was or even if it focused.

I'm sure other will have better insight.

 

[Clovishound]

All three posted pictures show an ISO of 100. A lot of folks think that you have to shoot the lowest ISO to get good pictures. While low ISOs are great, a sharp image with a higher ISO is much better than a low ISO, but fuzzy shot. As was suggested before, shooting in manual mode with auto ISO is what I use and , IMO, works well for action shots. Just keep an eye on your ISO and don't let it get too high. Experiment with what shutter speed is needed, I would probably start at 1/500. You might be fine with a little lower, or a little higher. It will be more about percentages of sharp shots, not a line in the sand. Remember, a noisy image can be fairly easily cleaned up in post processing. If you shoot a lot of high ISO images, you might consider investing in something like Topaz software to clean them up. It can do wonders with even very noisy images.

It can take some time to get used to a new camera. My first couple trips out with the Z7ii I bought earlier this year had a whole bunch of out of focus shots. I was beginning to wonder if I'd made a mistake with it's purchase. A little more playing around with focus modes and technique, and now I get the results I want. Most of the time.

 

[Woodyg3]

Here is my feedback for sports with the D500, hope it's helpful:

You need a faster shutter speed. The blurring in these shots is almost entirely motion blur. Get out of P mode and use shutter priority, or take the next step forward and learn to go in manual mode. Try to pan with the subject as best you can to further reduce motion blur. For something like rugby, I would use 1/1000 or faster. In good light there is no reason not to go up to 1/2000 or faster.

Group focus is a good choice for sports, as is continuous AF.

"Spray and Pray" is a term that is pretty outdated, IMO. We have cameras with fast FPS and it is a great tool for sports and wildlife. Go ahead and take lots of shots.

Have fun with your new D500. It's a fantastic camera.

 

[BF Hammer]

I will throw in my thoughts, but there is not anything radically different.

You have motion blurring going on. For the sports action, it is crucial to take control of shutter speed and not let the camera guess your setting. It is a good time to use the Shutter Priority mode if you are not comfortable with taking the test shots and estimating the f-stop in Manual mode. I would set the ISO at 100-Auto so it will automatically increase ISO as required. 1/1000 is a reasonable speed in my mind also. I believe you will find the camera in S-mode at that speed is going to select the widest aperture of the lens anyhow and the ISO will be what changes mostly.

Panning with your subject is a skill that takes practice. Just keep trying. This will still blur the surrounding stuff but help the subject to be sharper.

The 2nd photo as was noted that is around midday in bright sun. That means lots of contrast to the shadow. If you shoot with RAW format and post-process, there is a bit of room to lighten those shadows. Otherwise the only option to fix that is to be close and use a fill-flash or have an assistant hold a reflector shining on the girl's face.

 

[Bingo76]

Hey Needa, Clovishound, Woodyg3 & BF Hammer - Really really appreciate your thoughts here. So much still to learn, but these are some great suggestions which I'll start to play with. I'll let you know how I get on over time.
A few people noted panning - I presume this is simply a technique to be smooth and help reduce camera shake etc, or do you actually engage the autofocus while panning?
Again big thanks I'm sure this advice will be so valuable to me (just need to test / play and put into action!)

 

[Needa]

Panning in the simplest terms is following your subject with the camera. While doing so you should be using good shooting posture and arm position. Panning allows the background to blur while helping keep the subject in focus. In a simple scenario you are positioned halfway between the starting point and end point perpendicular to the line of travel, as the subject travels the path and you follow the subject the distance to the camera changes so you need to constantly refocus. Now on a field with subject zigging and zagging the need to refocus is constant.

This bring me to BBF (back button focus) which is a method of separating the focus function from the shutter button. This allow you to focus on the action and only use the shutter button when you want to take the picture. This can be accomplished also with a half press of the shutter button, myself if find the difficult with action shots. BBF is something to keep in mind if you would like try it down the road, some love it, some hate it.

 

[Clovishound]

Another question for Bingo76. Are you using a tripod? I don't do sports, but I sometimes shoot birds in flight, which has many of the same elements and challenges. If you are shooting in bright conditions, a tripod may be more of a hindrance than a help. The advantages are it will help you steady up camera movement. It won't help with subject movement, but it at least takes most of one issue out of the equation. The disadvantages are that they can be cumbersome, and interfere with your ability to react to the action quickly. For BIF, I use a gimbal head on my tripod. It allows for relatively unencumbered action, once I have everything set up and in position. If you aren't moving your position around much, a tripod might be a good choice for you. You may be able to somewhat replicate that action by tightening a more standard head only enough to provide a little resistance, but still allow easy movement of the camera/lens. You definitely don't want to have to lock down the head for every shot. Gimbal heads can be expensive, but there are some fairly inexpensive models out there that are very affordable, although, like mine, they may require a fairly simple disassembly, cleaning of the original grease, and relubricating. I, and other here can give you more information if you want to go that route.

I have evolved my tripod use to mainly in times that light levels are lower and faster shutter speeds are going to push my ISOs higher than I am comfortable with. Of course, in my situation, I normally have to lug that extra 10 lbs of tripod a couple miles to and from my car. I also am normally moving from to and from several different shooting positions and have to set the tripod up multiple times.

As time goes by, I find I am using my tripod less. Still, there are times when I wouldn't want to be without it.

 

[Bingo76]

Thanks - I do have a tripod, but haven't used it yet. Would also prefer not to bring it to games - I'm only a parent taking pics of my kids and the wider team and sharing afterwards. I think a tripod would make me stand out too much - maybe just me!
However this is useful advice - my son is really into planes / planespotting and this may be more revelant for taking pictures of planes taking off / landing etc. Many thanks