Looking for advice for remote flash control

BasilDane

Senior Member
I'm shooting models with a D750 handheld, and an SB-800 a few feet away with an umbrella mount.
I've been using the built in CMD mode on the D750 the SB-800 flashes along with the camera, but it is not reliable. Sometimes the SB-800 doesn't see the light and doesn't trigger.

Also, does this setup work with HSS?

So, what should I do to improve with setup without breaking the bank? I've been reading about the SU-4, but I'm not sure that gets me anything.

Any thoughts?
 

RocketCowboy

Senior Member
If it's bright enough that you need HSS, I don't think the IR receiver on the SB800 is going to see the camera body.

I don't think CLS works with HSS, but using RF triggers would be more reliable in that case.


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BasilDane

Senior Member
OK, do you have a recommended RF trigger? Is the su-4 RF? It's not very clear from the general description on the internet.
 

RocketCowboy

Senior Member
OK, do you have a recommended RF trigger? Is the su-4 RF? It's not very clear from the general description on the internet.

I've got direct experience with the Yongnuo 622s and Phottix Strato/Odin systems. The Yongnuos are inexpensive and reliable, but the Phottix have worked better with my SB-910s. I would probably start with the Yongnuos and your SB-800.


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Fortkentdad

Senior Member
I bought into the Godox system and use an X1 trigger, or any of the Godox flashes which when mounted on the camera have built in controllers, even the little TT350. I'd recommend you look into that. It is a lighting system and while compatible with Nikon flashes and cameras I now rarely pull out an SB flash relying on my Godox lithium battery powered flashes because they recycle so much faster and are as powerful and reliable as the SB900.

They will need a receiver at the base of the SB800 to fire it, I have that an SB00 and the Godox fires it no problem when mounted on a godox receiver.

Check out the reviews, reliable and inexpensive. Godox does have this marketing strategy that is confusing, retailers may rebrand Godox product, Adorama calls it Flashpoint, in Canada Studiopro calls them their X series (eg. the TT350 is X35. There is Molights and Cheetalights and a more.
 

Fred Kingston

Senior Member
I'm trying to understand. What is the point of the SU-4? I don't understand what value it adds?

It adds TTL to a slave/off camera flash... Apparently some flashes/cameras didn't "transmit" <--I hate that word because it really doesn't transmit in the RF sense... the TTL or manual changes as a Master in Nikon's CLS system... This enabled a remote flash to act like an optical slave with TTL and manual control...

Nikon created some weird stuff to accommodate their CLS system... which uses a series of flashing lights to trigger/control their flashes...

RF (radio frequency) transmitters are much more reliable and practical methods of control... Once you step away from the Nikon flash, things get much cheaper and practical...

This is certainly one of those cases where Nikon thinks their baby is beautiful, and the rest of the universe just nods their head and looks the other way...
 
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cwgrizz

Senior Member
Challenge Team
I will give another nod toward the Yongnuo 622 system. I don't own any Nikon (gold plated) flashes, but with the Yongnuo flashes that I do own, the 622 system (Transmitter and receiver) works well.
 

RocketCowboy

Senior Member
I'm trying to understand. What is the point of the SU-4? I don't understand what value it adds?

Using a hot shoe cable, you can get the CLS transmitter off camera and into a different position for better LOS between the SU-4 and the speed lights.

One of the Joe McNally books I read almost had me looking into buying one, but at the end of the day I decided RF triggers were a better investment.
 

Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
I'm pretty sure it *IS* more trouble than it's worth. I gotta remember to pack cables AND transmitters???
Not too mention the last thing I need is another trip hazard/way to knock over my light stands. Further, and I'm just spit-balling now, the cable is sold separately. It's three-feet long and costs $85?

Wait, no...

$125!! Final answer.
 

spb_stan

Senior Member
If you want to control remote flashes for mode and power, up to about 300 feet away(That is as far as I have tried and they worked every shot so I imagine the range is 10-20% further.) the best cheap solution is the RF type Yongnuo Yn-622 transceivers. A pair is about $80. Those are reliable and very easy to use. Adding a Yn-622 Tx transmitter offers even easier remote adjustment of up to 3 channels and 3 groups of flashes using an easy see LCD screen that shows the settings of each group and channel.
They also have very good infrared focus assist lights on the face of the transceivers and transmitter.
I built what was probably the first CLS compatible RF controllers back in 2008, years before Pocket Wizard managed to do it and even built the transmitter inside the D90 I had at the time. The optical controller system is technically rather complex but was the only way to simply add TTL remote multi-group control from the camera at the time. As it turns out however, TTL is not that useful in a multi-light situation where manual flash control is preferred.

For even simpler controllers, the RF603 or 605 from Yongnuo transmitter/receiver combination is about $30 for the pair. The Yn-622 units are about $39 each on Amazon.
I have 3 SB900s and 3 Yongnuo 568ex flash that have about the same power and functions for 1/6th the price, plus 6 622 transceivers and a 622Tx transmitter and they have been easy to use and very versatile. Not once has one failed to trigger its flash.
 

rocketman122

Senior Member
622n like a boss. I use 8 of them in weddings. I sold all 4 of my nikon flashes. im rocking chinese gear and couldnt be happier. with sucfh great aftermarket gear available at 1/5 the price, momma didnt raise no dummy

20161015_121718 copy.jpg
 

cwgrizz

Senior Member
Challenge Team
622n like a boss. I use 8 of them in weddings. I sold all 4 of my nikon flashes. im rocking chinese gear and couldnt be happier. with sucfh great aftermarket gear available at 1/5 the price, momma didnt raise no dummy

View attachment 268655

I think you need about 4 or 5 more to make it a dozen or a bakers dozen. Ha!!
Yep, IMHO you can't beat Yongnuo for function and price.
 

spb_stan

Senior Member
I did a shoot with flash units positioned every 30-50 feet along a long row of trees to highlight the portions of specific trees with the models distributed from the camera position to the end of the tree row of a little over 300 feet last month. Being able to control each flash as needed for the scene changes worked like a dream, much better than a bunch of assistants and walkie-talkies like in the old days.
If the OP is not already using some of these low cost controllers he is really missing out. HSS really works well with the YN-622/622 Tx combination. Optical CLS worked ok before affordable RF links but there is no excuse not to have them now.
 

rocketman122

Senior Member
I did a shoot with flash units positioned every 30-50 feet along a long row of trees to highlight the portions of specific trees with the models distributed from the camera position to the end of the tree row of a little over 300 feet last month. Being able to control each flash as needed for the scene changes worked like a dream, much better than a bunch of assistants and walkie-talkies like in the old days.
If the OP is not already using some of these low cost controllers he is really missing out. HSS really works well with the YN-622/622 Tx combination. Optical CLS worked ok before affordable RF links but there is no excuse not to have them now.

and thank god for fantastic workhorse transceiver alternatives to crazy expensive pocket wizards.
 

spb_stan

Senior Member
622n like a boss. I use 8 of them in weddings. I sold all 4 of my nikon flashes. im rocking chinese gear and couldnt be happier. with sucfh great aftermarket gear available at 1/5 the price, momma didnt raise no dummy
Yes, the cheap flash units changed the way I work. Having a whole herd of powerful flash units opens lots of opportunities that required big power supplies and strobes before. There are some differences between my SB900s and my Yongnuo 568ex flash;
1] zoom focusing extends to field of view of 200 mm on the SB900 and 105mm on the Chinese units.
2] The 568ex for $90-99 has thicker plastic case than the $600 Nikon
3] Full pop Recycle time is a little faster on the SB900 than 568ex
4] HSS, high speed sync is not available on all cheap flash and it is simple to use on the SB900 series and 568ex Yongnuo

Related to:
1], beam focusing using any sort of indirect or modified light is irrelevant. I don't have any change in my shooting because I modify the light usually, and direct beam projecting a long distance is not advised since red eye becomes a frequent problem. With the RF controllers getting the flash up close and personal to the subject and using local modifiers is by far the best solution

2] I have a number of flash modifiers like softboxes, snoots etc and all require clamping onto the body of the flash head. Tightening the clamp to the head of the Nikon makes me nervous because the thinner plastic gives a bit so more pressure it need to hold it in place unless using Gaffer's tape. The 568ex case is thick and rigid and clamps securely without give.

3] Using flash closer to the subject when using the RF controllers naturally requires a lot less flash power so 1/2 power flash requires zero recycle time. A set of batteries in an event ends up lasting 400-600 flash shots when using practical power levels, even with diffusers.

4] The cheaper manual flash units are all someone needs for remote triggering. TTL is not a desirable mode with multiple lights or where modifiers are used, manual is easy and gives what you want. But if you need high speed shutter, to darken a daylight scene with shallow DOF...very useful....HSS is not available on all lower end flash that might not be TTL. So before buying the $40 version of the flash, make sure it has High Speed Sync function. IF you want shallow DOF in higher ambient light, HSS is a very useful tool. HSS works a lot better with remote flash than camera mounted because the lower output power of HSS is fine when the flash can be placed close to the subject and is much more restricted from further away like when camera shoe mounted.

A general note to beginners: If someone is new to flash/strobe photography, exposure might seem like a mystery in TTL mode where it becomes sort of automatic. For most photography other than flash snap shots, more creative control is desired so get used to manual flash settings and to do that be sure to read up on the Exposure Triad. Once you understand the relationship between speed, aperture and sensitivity, all photography gets simpler to get the shots exactly as you envision them before taking the capture. After a good understanding of exposure, experiment without a model, with a dummy head( a $4 wig styling styrofoam head from a beauty shop supply company works great for practice before making a model nervous by not appearing to be fully in control of the results. Get in the habit of visualizing how the shot will look before you set the lights and camera and figure out why it doesn't. You did not understand the exposure and camera point of view if your imagination before taking the shot is different than seeing the results. Get in that habit and your improvement with augmented light will be rapid and setting up shots will be fast and effective.
 
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