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  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Fortkentdad's Avatar

    Getting to M and Off Camera Flash

    Getting to M and Off Camera Flash
    New year - new learning - well continued learning.
    I've tried this a bit before but decided to knuckle down a little and learn how to shoot in Manual with off camera flashes.

    lots of trial and lots of errors.
    I do not have a proper light meter so I'm doing this by guessing.

    This is part of my venture into the wide world of lighting.
    At the moment I've decided to learn to use what I have first.

    But am shopping for some triggers, jury is still out on which system I buy into.
    Youngnuo - has lots of happy users, Godox X1 same price, has an interesting array of lighting options. Or put out the big bucks and go with the big boys like P-Wizes. Maybe a Cactus - but Phottix is promising? - Too many choices.

    In the meantime shooting with Nikons CLS. And turned to the might "M" on the dial.

    Here are a couple of my better shots from this evenings playing around in the rec room

    Getting to M and Off Camera Flash-dsc_7387-kalie-two-lights-0001.jpgGetting to M and Off Camera Flash-dsc_7405-teddy-off-camera-flash-0001_1.jpg


    › See More: Getting to M and Off Camera Flash
    Thanks/Like cwgrizz, RobV, Needa, Dawg Pics, Scott Murray Thanks/liked this post
     
    FKD Alberta Canada

    D500, D610, D7100, D5100

    Nikkor FX:
    AFS 60mm 2.8, AFS 85mm 1.8, AFD 105 2.8, AFS 70-200 2.8 VRI, AFS 200-500 5.6.
    Nikkor DX: AFS 16-85 VR, AFS VR 55-300, AFS 35mm 1.8.
    Tamron: SP 24-70 2.8, SP 70-300 4-5.6, SP 17-35 2.8-4
    Tokina: ATX 11-20 2.8, Sigma: Art 50 1.4
    Lensbaby Composer Pro with collection of optics & 5.8 F/3.5 Fisheye,
    Kenko 300 DGX 1.4X & 2X TC
    SB-400, 600 & 700, Metz 58 AF2, Godox AD360, 2 x V860, V350
    and Benro Transfunctional Travel Angel to watch over me



  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Moab Man's Avatar

    Re: Getting to M and Off Camera Flash

    Keep at it. Flash and off camera opens a whole new world.
    Thanks/Like Dawg Pics Thanks/liked this post
     
    D5100, D7100, D600, D750, Df
    Lenses: Nikon DX 18-55mm, 55-200mm, 55-300mm, Tamron SP 70-300mm F4-5.6 Di VC USD & 200-500mm
    Prime: Nikon 35mm, 50mm, & 85mm f/1.8G, 300mm f/4
    Wide Angle: Tokina AT-X116 Pro DX-II 11-16mm f/2.8, Rokinon f/2.8 14mm (chipped)
    Macro: Nikon 40mm, Tamron 90mm
    ​Flash: Nissin MARK II Di622
    Stuff: Expodisc Neutral & Portrait
    ​Editing: CS6, CC, Nik Tools, Portrait Pro 12, Topaz
    Spyder4Pro
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/122672034@N04/

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Dawg Pics's Avatar

    Re: Getting to M and Off Camera Flash

    Sounds like we are both on the same journey. Tackling flash is a priority for me this year.
    "You doesn't have to call me Dawg Pics. You can call me Carolyn or you can call me Sue or you can call me Suzie or you can call me Suzie-Q or you can call me Carol or you can call me Carolyn Sue, but you doesn't have to call me Dawg Pics.

    "Remember to gaze up at the night sky because there is a little bit of the cosmos in each of us."

    Um yeahhhh, I shoot a lot of pics of my dogs.
    D500 (DOB 05/26/17), D300, D80, SB-800

  4. #4
    Banned

    Re: Getting to M and Off Camera Flash

    do you still write with a fountain pen or pencil ? do you use look up tables for calculations? Of course you don't so why are you bothering with manual. They have invented iTTL and remotes that handle it . Move on .you only need manual for fireworks and street scenes at night ....
    I just find the fascination with manual to be very strange.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Fortkentdad's Avatar

    Re: Getting to M and Off Camera Flash

    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Jacket View Post
    do you still write with a fountain pen or pencil ? do you use look up tables for calculations? Of course you don't so why are you bothering with manual. They have invented iTTL and remotes that handle it . Move on .you only need manual for fireworks and street scenes at night ....
    I just find the fascination with manual to be very strange.

    It is tempting to stay TTL.

    And that is one of the key factors in my hunt for a trigger system, some offer TTL, the more expensive brands (pocket wiz, phottix) really make you pay for TTL through the nose. Coming down to getting a cheaper brand (Youngnuo or Godox) with TTL or getting a non-TTL system from Pocket Wiz, Phottix or Cactus. Even then the cheaper brands are both cheaper than the cheapest alternative from the 'big boys". The other consideration is the cost of flash - especially strobes. Non-TTL lighting is more affordable. But cost is only one factor and certainly not the driver.

    Way I see it is that learning Manual for lighting is like learning to use M on the camera dial instead of Auto or A-Priority or S-Priority.
    I started out in auto on the dial and took good pictures - why would I bother to learn A or S priority - and heaven forbid M. Of course I would never go to "P" for professional.

    I have been using TTL, but once you start taking the flash off camera and putting it into a soft box or other modifier, then it gets tricky - of course you can just use exposure comp. To a degree.

    From the video's I've been watching those who seem to know what they are talking about say that leaving TTL is akin to leaving 'auto' on the camera dial. I am finding the learning curve steeper, and it also requires both the camera and the flash in manual mode. But I think the lessons are worth learning.


    Love to hear from others on this - is TTL the only way to go or is it worth the time to get to "M".
    Thanks/Like cwgirl197 Thanks/liked this post
    Best Answers billway1834 voted best answer for this post
     
    FKD Alberta Canada

    D500, D610, D7100, D5100

    Nikkor FX:
    AFS 60mm 2.8, AFS 85mm 1.8, AFD 105 2.8, AFS 70-200 2.8 VRI, AFS 200-500 5.6.
    Nikkor DX: AFS 16-85 VR, AFS VR 55-300, AFS 35mm 1.8.
    Tamron: SP 24-70 2.8, SP 70-300 4-5.6, SP 17-35 2.8-4
    Tokina: ATX 11-20 2.8, Sigma: Art 50 1.4
    Lensbaby Composer Pro with collection of optics & 5.8 F/3.5 Fisheye,
    Kenko 300 DGX 1.4X & 2X TC
    SB-400, 600 & 700, Metz 58 AF2, Godox AD360, 2 x V860, V350
    and Benro Transfunctional Travel Angel to watch over me

  6. #6
    Banned

    Re: Getting to M and Off Camera Flash

    The YN 622n works great .You can use two or more or As its got a mount on top you can have one on the camera and one in the soft box . The TX version does not have the ability to hold a flash on top.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Needa's Avatar

    Re: Getting to M and Off Camera Flash

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortkentdad;600825

    Love to hear from others on this - is TTL the only way to go or is it worth the time to get to "[B
    M[/B]".
    It is not like you must always use one or the other. Take for example taking picture of the grand kids. If going to be in one room I will use off camera manual mode to light the room. If chasing them from room to room usually bounce TTL. It surprising how accurate it is some times, but not every time.

    I have seen a professional one time use 4 flashes (3 off, 1 on camera) all set to manual and other times using TTL for on camera fill with three set to manual.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Bikerbrent's Avatar

    Re: Getting to M and Off Camera Flash

    I admit to seldom using camera Manual mode. However, I never use Auto mode. My D7200 is generally set on P (Professional) mode. This way, as I am framing the scene in the viewfinder, if I am NOT satisfied with the Aperture or Shutter Speed the camera selects, a quick flick of the front or rear command dial addresses the issue. If I am in a situation demanding a particular Shutter Speed or Aperture, then I select the appropriate A or S mode and setting (i.e. for action S mode with a high shutter speed, or portraits A mode with a wide open lens for shallow depth of field).

    As for flash, I generally use i-TTL as I have found it quite reliable in all but the most challenging conditions (i.e. a black critter in a white room or a bride in white in a room with dark walls and ceiling) then I will use Manual Flash mode.

    The above all seems to work very well for me.
    Brent: Poway, CA
    D7200, D200, D70, F100
    Tokina 12-24mm
    Nikon 18-200mm
    Nikon 18-70mm
    Tokina 28-70mm f2.6-2.8
    Nikon 80-200mm f2.8
    Sigma 150-600mm
    Nikon 50 AF f1.8
    Tokina 100mm f2.8 Macro
    Nikon SB800

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Fortkentdad's Avatar

    Re: Getting to M and Off Camera Flash

    Quote Originally Posted by Bikerbrent View Post
    I admit to seldom using camera Manual mode. However, I never use Auto mode. My D7200 is generally set on P (Professional) mode. This way, as I am framing the scene in the viewfinder, if I am NOT satisfied with the Aperture or Shutter Speed the camera selects, a quick flick of the front or rear command dial addresses the issue. If I am in a situation demanding a particular Shutter Speed or Aperture, then I select the appropriate A or S mode and setting (i.e. for action S mode with a high shutter speed, or portraits A mode with a wide open lens for shallow depth of field).

    As for flash, I generally use i-TTL as I have found it quite reliable in all but the most challenging conditions (i.e. a black critter in a white room or a bride in white in a room with dark walls and ceiling) then I will use Manual Flash mode.

    The above all seems to work very well for me.
    I tend to use either A or S, and when in 'learnin'' mode try out "M" - never really look into "P" but sounds like that adventure would be worth the effort.

    When I read your reply it makes sense, and I see that some of the kits offered by P-Wiz include a main controller that is TTL but the supporting units are not. Implying that the off camera flashes are manual while the on camera one is TTL. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...s_iv_plus.html for example

    However the most telling thing is your remark "... then I will use Manual Flash Mode" - which implies you know how to use manual.

    I think it is worthwhile learning, even if I don't use it.

    I learned to drive a standard, and am glad I did, have had the joy of driving a small two seater convertible stickshift. Totally different experience - and if I lived somewhere where you could expect more than 10 top down days a year I'd be looking for one. But my point is that even though my truck and cars are automatics, knowing standard is a good thing.

    Even if in the end of the day 90% of the time TTL works, it is good to know how to not TTL. For both those challenging shots you describe, and for those artsy creative crafted shots where you don't want what the camera thinks is the perfect exposure.
    Last edited by Fortkentdad; 01-11-2017 at 08:44 PM.
    FKD Alberta Canada

    D500, D610, D7100, D5100

    Nikkor FX:
    AFS 60mm 2.8, AFS 85mm 1.8, AFD 105 2.8, AFS 70-200 2.8 VRI, AFS 200-500 5.6.
    Nikkor DX: AFS 16-85 VR, AFS VR 55-300, AFS 35mm 1.8.
    Tamron: SP 24-70 2.8, SP 70-300 4-5.6, SP 17-35 2.8-4
    Tokina: ATX 11-20 2.8, Sigma: Art 50 1.4
    Lensbaby Composer Pro with collection of optics & 5.8 F/3.5 Fisheye,
    Kenko 300 DGX 1.4X & 2X TC
    SB-400, 600 & 700, Metz 58 AF2, Godox AD360, 2 x V860, V350
    and Benro Transfunctional Travel Angel to watch over me

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Fortkentdad's Avatar

    Re: Getting to M and Off Camera Flash

    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Jacket View Post
    The YN 622n works great .You can use two or more or As its got a mount on top you can have one on the camera and one in the soft box . The TX version does not have the ability to hold a flash on top.
    Really tossed up about which Trigger. The YN 622n is high on my list. Costs the same as the Godox X1. Both offer flashes with built in triggers for future expansion, although I'm currently enamored by the AD 360 https://www.vistek.ca/store/CameraMo...for-nikon.aspx The Ver ii has built in X1 trigger. Lots of good reviews. Sold under various brands - Adorama calls it Flashpoint. B&H "Bolt" and in Calgary Studio Pro has their own Godox line (strange way to market a product giving each vendor their own housebrand of your product?)

    Have not rulled out Cactus v6ii (all manual only) or even P-Wizers or Phottix. .... but leaning hard towards that X1 by Godox. .... however so many YN 622n users out there can't be that wrong?

    BTW - I think I'd still get an TX even though it prevents an on camera flash. There are always brackets if you really need one on the camera. That is one of the upsides of the Godox model. https://www.vistek.ca/store/CameraMo...-wireless.aspx

    FKD Alberta Canada

    D500, D610, D7100, D5100

    Nikkor FX:
    AFS 60mm 2.8, AFS 85mm 1.8, AFD 105 2.8, AFS 70-200 2.8 VRI, AFS 200-500 5.6.
    Nikkor DX: AFS 16-85 VR, AFS VR 55-300, AFS 35mm 1.8.
    Tamron: SP 24-70 2.8, SP 70-300 4-5.6, SP 17-35 2.8-4
    Tokina: ATX 11-20 2.8, Sigma: Art 50 1.4
    Lensbaby Composer Pro with collection of optics & 5.8 F/3.5 Fisheye,
    Kenko 300 DGX 1.4X & 2X TC
    SB-400, 600 & 700, Metz 58 AF2, Godox AD360, 2 x V860, V350
    and Benro Transfunctional Travel Angel to watch over me





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