Nikon cls drawbacks

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alaios

Senior Member
Hi all there,
I wanted to ask you how happy you are about the reliability of CLS for covering events. Churches for example. Many times people complain that is not that reliable in bright sun but I guess that once you are inside or the weather is cloudy you could still make it work.

What is your experience with it?

Last question: Do the yongnuo flashes for nikon support understanding of CLS commands coming from a master unit?
I would like to thank you for your reply
Regards
Alex
 
W

WayneF

Senior Member
alaios said:
Hi all there,
I wanted to ask you how happy you are about the reliability of CLS for covering events. Churches for example. Many times people complain that is not that reliable in bright sun but I guess that once you are inside or the weather is cloudy you could still make it work.

What is your experience with it?

Last question: Do the yongnuo flashes for nikon support understanding of CLS commands coming from a master unit?
I would like to thank you for your reply
Regards
Alex
Click to expand...


CLS is the name of the entire Nikon flash system (last ten years). CLS is the communication system between camera and flash for all features, iTTL, etc, including AWL (Advanced Wireless Lighting), which is the Commander operation. Everyone does call it CLS, possibly few would recognize AWL, but it doesn't technically match Nikons nomenclature. :) But a flash that does CLS does NOT necessarily do AWL with Commander.

The line of sight control is a mixed bag. It works great in easy situations, such as a couple of flashes in umbrellas in the living room, and less so sometimes in difficult situations (distance, obstacles, sunlight, etc). It typically does cause pictures of blinking subjects, but FV Lock is the easy work around that. If your camera model has Commander, it will have FV Lock.
Using the Nikon CLS Remote Wireless Flash System


Some Yongnuo flashes work with the Commander, specifically the YN-565 and YN-568. My YN565 does. They don't call it AWL, I guess that's Nikons name, but these two can do it.
 
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singlerosa_RIP

Senior Member
My experience with CLS over 10+ years has been very positive. I've used it with up to 3 SB-800s (sorry no Yongnuo flash experience), triggered by the pop up flash, on-camera flash and SU-800. Only "reliability" issues have been related to line of sight for the IR. When that's been a problem, I use RF triggers (Yongnuo 603s) and shoot manual flash. In my experience, when folks complain, most don't know how to properly use their gear or are trying to use it in situations where probability of success is low.
 
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Zeke_M

Senior Member
I tried the CLS a couple of times. It was "meh". Didn't work well in my wonky house.
Bought some Yongnuo manual and TTL triggers and all is well.
 
A

alaios

Senior Member
WayneF said:
CLS is the name of the entire Nikon flash system (last ten years). CLS is the communication system between camera and flash for all features, iTTL, etc, including AWL (Advanced Wireless Lighting), which is the Commander operation. Everyone does call it CLS, possibly few would recognize AWL, but it doesn't technically match Nikons nomenclature. :) But a flash that does CLS does NOT necessarily do AWL with Commander.

The line of sight control is a mixed bag. It works great in easy situations, such as a couple of flashes in umbrellas in the living room, and less so sometimes in difficult situations (distance, obstacles, sunlight, etc). It typically does cause pictures of blinking subjects, but FV Lock is the easy work around that. If your camera model has Commander, it will have FV Lock.
Using the Nikon CLS Remote Wireless Flash System


Some Yongnuo flashes work with the Commander, specifically the YN-565 and YN-568. My YN565 does. They don't call it AWL, I guess that's Nikons name, but these two can do it.
Click to expand...

why it causes subjects with blinking eyes? How should I use flash exposure lock? Imagine that I shoot a wedding where I need to reframe and shoot. How flash exposure lock would help me with the reframe and shoot case?
Alex
 
D

Don Kuykendall_RIP

RIP :(
Zeke_M said:
I tried the CLS a couple of times. It was "meh". Didn't work well in my wonky house.
Bought some Yongnuo manual and TTL triggers and all is well.
Click to expand...


Sound a lot like my experience. The CLS was really difficult when I used umbrellas or anything other than a very simple setup. I when to the Yongnuo triggers and never have a problem no matter how odd the setup is.
 
A

alaios

Senior Member
I want a simple setup for weddings. Where I would have a -2 TTL Flash on camera and a +0TTL flash on a light stand. These two would be always within 3 meters distance so I do not see the problem.
I hope I would not have to face the blinking problem though
Alex
 
W

WayneF

Senior Member
alaios said:
why it causes subjects with blinking eyes? How should I use flash exposure lock? Imagine that I shoot a wedding where I need to reframe and shoot. How flash exposure lock would help me with the reframe and shoot case?
Alex
Click to expand...

The Nikon Commander on camera flashes control signals to the remote flashes just before the shutter opens, in the face of the subjects. This timing is just right to capture the subject blinking in your pictures. This is NOT the subjects fault, you're the one flashing in their face. :)

FV Lock is designed for reframing. You push the Programmed button on the camera, and the TTL commands and preflash and metering occurs then, and the blinking too. Then a moment later (after reframing) your shutter button just fires the flash without the early flashing (which is already done then, the shutter uses the previous metered Flash Value), and there is no risk of causing subject blinking again. The same delay bypasses the blinking, reframing or not. See Using the Nikon CLS Remote Wireless Flash System - Part 2

Regular hot shoe on camera TTL preflash can cause the same problem in a few especially sensitive peoples eyes, and FV Lock is the same solution then. But the Commander affects most people.

alaios said:
I want a simple setup for weddings. Where I would have a -2 TTL Flash on camera and a +0TTL flash on a light stand. These two would be always within 3 meters distance so I do not see the problem.
I hope I would not have to face the blinking problem though
Alex
Click to expand...

Commander is great for fast simple setups like that with ratio (point&shoot), but you should expect the blinking. It will find you, so prepare for it. FV Lock will work around it. The remote flash body should be rotated so that the sensor on the side of the remote flash is aimed at the camera. Triggering should be no issue then.

In my experience, such Commander setup will routinely need about +1 overall exposure compensation, or maybe +2/3 EV. Your -2 EV seems a bit much to me for ratio, but it would be the same -2 EV ratio if the main light was +1 EV and fill was -1 EV, but then with this overall +1 EV boost (as a starting point, always do what you see is necessary).

A radio trigger avoids those issues, no blinking, but all the ordinary low cost radio triggers are manual flash only.
 
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rocketman122

Senior Member
I shot cls many times. Especially when i came back to shooting weddings and didnt have a selection of slaves to chose from it was either the expensive pocket wizard or unreliable chinese triggers. Today the situation is very different but cls is crap. Its not consistent its unreliable and consistency cannot be reproduced. Cls needs line of site and even on the dance floor at a wedding it didnt fire consistently Get triggers. They will work in every situation. Indoors outdoors hidden in a softbox or umbrella. Anywhere. Ive shot them at more than 100 meters away. I never tried more and the situation is very rare. 30 bucks a set is a steal. They do their job. Btw yongnuo 568 will work as an off camera slave in cls. 603II or 622n
 
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Zeke_M

Senior Member
alaios said:
do you mean those two?
Yongnuo YN-622N wireless i-TTL Blitzauslöser: Amazon.de: Kamera

Do they turn the optical cls system to wireless one?
Does the preflash needed from the cls system then or not?
You can change settigns thought from the sb-700 directly for all remote flashes ?

Regards
Alex
Click to expand...

What your're doing is moving to a radio controlled setup.

Those are triggers, they mount under your flash.
You need a controller on the camera to make the triggers fire the flash.
YongNuo YN-622N-TX 7-Channel i-TTL Wireless Flash Controller for Nikon Cameras YN-622N-TX
 
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Fortkentdad

Senior Member
So far have only used the CLS system (have considered buying Yungnuo triggers but have not).

I've had no problems, always have worked as expected. But nothing too complicated. Always indoors. Have used it for "bunny shots" at the children's center at Easter and Santa sets at Christmas. But it is 'studio' style in that I set it all up, nothing at a great distance, no challenging line of sight issues. I have used SB 700 and my Metz, sometimes with the pop-up, often I put a diffuser on the pop up and tone it down in the settings.

Getting the Yungnuo trigger system is on my radar, but not because I need it, but because I just want new toys to play with.
 
A

alaios

Senior Member
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