Flash diffusers / softboxes

I have a wedding coming up that I have been elected to shoot. It is my son's second wedding and the photography in the first one was a true disaster so he informed me that I was going to shoot this one so he knew it would be done right. (I hope he is right)

Been looking at light and how to set it up correctly. I have 2each - speedlights / stands / umbrellas / triggers to work with so far. Still debating on using the umbrellas for the setup group shots. I might be a little cumbersome in the area I found that I am going to be in. It is a tight space in the front of the church where I will have to shoot. Not much room to set up. So I am thinking that flash diffusers might be a better choice. They also would be better for the walking around shots at the reception. High ceilings there so bounce might prove to be impossible. I have narrowed it down to 2 so far that I think might be good choices. I am also open to other suggestions. Here are the candidates so far.

Gary Fong Lightsphere® Collapsible™ Speed Mount



And a much less expensive (a good thing)
Neewer Dome Light Translucent Soft Flash Box , 6x8-Inch
 

Daz

Senior Member
Hmm unless you have a second shooter (or a couple assistants to help) I wouldn't go for Umbrellas and stands its going to take too much time and be awkward to set up.

I don't have any experience with the Gary Fong mount but I do have the Neewer one (I got it with the Neweer flash I got as a backup) and the soft box works really well, I wish I had brought it before I did my first wedding !!
 

WayneF

Senior Member
I have narrowed it down to 2 so far that I think might be good choices. I am also open to other suggestions.


I'm going to have to be out, so I apologize for starting something and then leaving... But I do hope you stop and think.

Frankly, I'd be embarrassed to admit I paid $60 for a small piece of molded clear plastic. :) It would be a great sales business to get into though, people will buy anything, if you can market it.

It cannot help. One, it's for bounce, which you said was out. Its instructions show it aimed up. The purpose of the domes is to be clear to allow the bounce to go up (better done without the dome), and the clear front allows some direct light forward spill to add catchlights in the eyes (the pull out bounce card does that better). People like to imagine that the clear sides lets light out in all directions, to imagine it somehow reflects back from all the room walls, but the most casual inverse square law investigation shows how futile that is (maybe in a small closet?) What the dome actually does do is to require higher flash power, which lowers the color temperature, warming the light slightly. People that don't know what soft is like that.

Marketing words like this are simply false:
Translucent horizontal rings provide soft, even illumination with a minimum loss of power

As to any direct diffusion properties, all any diffusion does is to scatter the light. The dome being so tiny (about same size as the flash head, smaller than the subject), it can only scatter the light outwards, missing the subject altogether, so this light is no longer of any interest.

Larger diffusers (say 3 or 4 feet, umbrellas or softboxes) are large enough, and close enough, larger than the subject, to be able to scatter outward reaches inward, back to the subject, but specifically, now from different directions to provide fill. If close enough, say a 4 foot light at 4 feet, is 2 feet either side of subject, directing light inwards from 2 feet out, from 45 degree angles. This size (and multiple paths to subject) is what fills shadows and makes soft light. Soft is purely about size... and close helps make size.

This from Creating Soft Light from the Flash

Examples of light size, which causes this softening; wraparound and fill: (light size as seen by the subject)

  • A light at a distance equal to half of its size: seen as 90 degrees width
  • A light at same distance as its size: 53 degrees width (this will be quite soft light)
  • A light at 2x the distance as its size: 28 degrees width
  • A light at 5x the distance as its size: 11 degrees width
  • An 8 inch softbox at 6 feet (9x): about 6 degree width
  • A 2 inch flash head at 9 feet (50x): about 1 degree width
  • Our Sun (865,000 miles diameter, 100x): 0.5 degree size.
  • The trigonometry: degrees of angle = 2 arc tan(radius/distance)


Size is what makes soft. If diffusion does not also promote large, it merely wastes light. For example, hanging a sheet and aiming the flash through it (from a few feet back), makes the small flash be much larger on the sheet. Same with bouncing from ceiling or wall, the bounce surface becomes a much larger light. Soft is about size. And close helps size be large.

The tiny softbox could be marginally better than the direct dome (8 inches vs 3 inches?) but both are very small compared to say 8 feet distance. At normal distances (6 or 8 feet), you won't notice much difference from direct flash. Perhaps detectable if close enough, but not major (better for macro). If you get one of these, you should set it up, and compare carefully with and without, and actually try to literally see the difference you imagine might exist. If you can't see it, it isn't there. Maybe also compare it to a larger light. Expectations should be reasonable. There is no magic. Except Large is much like magic. :)
 
Last edited:
I have experience in TV lighting so I understand a lot about light. The dome in the Gary Fong ones is not clear. It is frosted or white I think the purpose is to defuse the light so as to soften the shadows just a little. Also for a large group of people this should help even out the light ice the group some. Get rid of the hot spot that flashes might have. Sorry but on this I think I will look for other opinions of someone who has used them in real life situations or just use my best guess


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

WayneF

Senior Member
OK, it was just my two cents. But the dome can't actually hurt much, other than the cost and power loss and expectations. :) What softens shadows is light from other path angles, different directions back to the subject, for wrap around and fill. Diffusion just scatters the light to go different directions, and the paths from "small" are of course all generally away from the subject, because not much of the scattering from a two inch width is able to come back toward the subject. Two inches of "diffusion" is about the same as the original two inches of flash head, on a subject at several feet. The size is still two inches either way.

I'd bet on the effect of the little softbox as being easier detected at several feet, arguably better than nothing, not zero but still small effect. Eight inches at 8 feet is same angles as 80 inches at 80 feet. Because the head is so close to fabric, the flash probably just makes a little spot on the front panel. A light should be bare bulb in a softbox, 180 degrees wide, to scatter the light inside the box. Maybe the dome on the flash in the softbox would help it. A least the box would direct some of it back to the subject from an eight inch width. :)
 
Last edited:

Moab Man

Senior Member
I have both. The Fong does a nicer job than the 6x8. Comparing the two, the 6x8 still seems to cast a more direst light where the Fong does a softer all around illumination.

Give me a day or two, as you know I am laid up at the moment, and I will share the lighting of the Fong in a very dark room where everyone was dancing.

More importantly, and I can't stress this enough, as great as the D7100 is you really want to do this with a full frame camera. Pushing the ISO up as high as you will probably need to is just not something your D7100 is going to be up to in the lighting I expect you will be shooting in. And I've said it a million times, you over achieve with your equipment more than anyone I know, but it will really help you a lot to shoot full frame.
 
I have both. The Fong does a nicer job than the 6x8. Comparing the two, the 6x8 still seems to cast a more direst light where the Fong does a softer all around illumination.

Give me a day or two, as you know I am laid up at the moment, and I will share the lighting of the Fong in a very dark room where everyone was dancing.

More importantly, and I can't stress this enough, as great as the D7100 is you really want to do this with a full frame camera. Pushing the ISO up as high as you will probably need to is just not something your D7100 is going to be up to in the lighting I expect you will be shooting in. And I've said it a million times, you over achieve with your equipment more than anyone I know, but it will really help you a lot to shoot full frame.

Can't talk the wife into a full frame camera yet and I would not want to shoot with a camera that I was not really used to. The main room is fairly bright and I will be using 2 Speedlights on Stands to fill in on the setup shots. In the reception I will be close enough that the on camera speedlight should do the trick. I think the ceiling is fairly high in that room but I will try on a shot of two the use bounce and see if it is enough.
 
I wouldn't try to push you to a purchase, but maybe a rental.

I had thought about that but I still would not want to shoot a wedding with a camera that I was not familiar with. Just to risky for me. I am starting to hint around for a D750 but it will take some time to get the wife unit to not kill me if I buy it.
 

Osantacruz

Senior Member
I just bought the Magmod 2 kit the other day as well as the MagBounce attachment. It should arrive today. Hoping it'll work as well as I'm expecting. If it seems like a good diffuser, I'll update you.
 

pforsell

Senior Member
You will be sorely disappointed. If there's nothing to bounce the light from, there's no point in diffusing it. The whole idea behind a diffuser is to spread the light in all directions, in order to have it bounce (=reflect) back to the subject from walls, ceiling, floor, furniture.

If there's nothing to bounce the light back from, all the diffuser does is it eats a couple of stops of light.

Please test your diffusers before the wedding to avoid a catastrophy. You will see that they are worse than useless and you'll get better results without them.

You can make one easily and cheaply from a translucent laundry wash ball with a box cutter.
 

Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
There are several videos on Youtube that compare nuuuumerous different soft-boxes, diffusers and modifiers under identical conditions so you can get an idea what they do.

I don't suggest any particular diffuser/modifier gadget but I have used such things in the past in situations where bounce flash was simply out of the question. Generally I've found they work fine. I'm not going to argue with anyone, it's just my (albeit limited) personal experience with them.
.....
 
Top