SB800 Not enough light

cmyers79

New member
So I have used SB800s for years, and they are powerful little portable strobes; However, I consistently have issues with them not giving me even close to enough light when I have a really low aperture AND I am using my 24-70 Nikkor lens. The flash is being triggered via FlexTT5 mini Pocket Wizards. I have yet to figure out why this happens. I would love some insight. Thanks in advance

- ISO 200 (needs to stay low)
- F16 (needs to stay low)
- SS 1/80 (can't go any slower)


- Charity
 
At that iso and aperture, your working distance should be around 11 feet. Is that the case?

If so, you may want to test the flash on the camera hot shoe, in manual, to rule out any sync issues you may be having with your wireless.
 

carguy

Senior Member
At that iso and aperture, your working distance should be around 11 feet. Is that the case?

If so, you may want to test the flash on the camera hot shoe, in manual, to rule out any sync issues you may be having with your wireless.

Flash to subject distance was my first thought as well.
transceiver issues are a good idea as well.
 

singlerosa_RIP

Senior Member
Here's what I get when I try your settings with D750, 24-70 and hot shoe mounted SB-800. Manual (full power) and TTL yielded the same results. So, I'm probably getting what you're getting. Maybe if you can tell why you need those settings (or why you can't open the lens up), we can be of more service.

J75_1340.jpg
 

WayneF

Senior Member
Welcome to the forum.

It all depends of course. To have a clue here, what is your flash zoom and its distance to the subject? Is it direct flash? Is the Ready LED flashing immediately after the shot?

Or is it bounce? (I know it cannot be, not stopped down so far to f/16, so we can rule that out.)
TTL or manual flash? f/16 1/80 second ISO 200 is not brightest sun, we can rule that out.
Some description of your situation could only help to understand. Otherwise, no clue here.

SB-800 is powerful, but it has finite capability. :) Is it macro? In an umbrella? Stopping down to f/16 is a pretty strong demand on its power capability if at much distance. f/16 requires 4 times more flash power than f/8, or 16 times more power than f/4. We tend to use f/4 a lot for speedlights. :) Saying, some situations need a larger studio flash unit (which won't be TTL).
So try f/8 or f/4 once, not as a final solution, but just as a test to see it the power level helps the exposure of your case? That result would be clear.

What a SB-800 ought to do:

Assuming 50mm flash zoom (to have a number), bare (no diffuser) direct flash full power Guide Number is 144 (feet). Times 1.414 for ISO 200 is GN 203. So at f/16, the maximum direct flash range expected is 203/16 = 12.7 feet (at 50 mm zoom). Or more likely, 24 mm flash zoom is GN 98 x 1.414/16 = 8.6 feet maximum distance range. Greater distance is not a reasonable request for those f/16 conditions.

A white or light colored high reflectance subject usually needs significantly more than metered (comes out dark, normal metering limitations).

For hot shoe bounce flash, my SB-800 works if STANDING under at a ten foot ceiling at ISO 400 up to about f/7 (maximum). f/16 is of course out of the question. I usually stay about f/5 to have some flexibility, for ceilings and subject and distance and stuff, and faster recycle.

If Exposure Compensation or Flash Compensation (on camera body, or on the flash body) are not Zero EV, then that affects what the TTL flash is instructed to do.

The Ready light flashes (about three times fast) immediately after the (Nikon flash) TTL shot any time its maximum power level is reached, when at the limits of what it can do, warning of probable underexposure. Does it? The flash LCD will tell you how much underexposure then. In which case, open the aperture, reduce the subject distance, or increase the ISO, to allow it to work. I am not familiar with the TT5, but that is how TTL works, can't be much different. If Manual flash mode, then of course it is you that determines the power requirements.

TTL BL metering mode probably gives less exposure than TTL mode. Good for fill in bright sun, but indoors, TTL mode is better. Since there is no TT5 feedback back to the camera, metering must be at the cameras default of TTL BL (unless Spot metering). Exif will show it.
 
Last edited:

cmyers79

New member
Thank you For all of the quick replies guys!

Answers to your questions:
I'm shooting Furniture for an e-commerce site (hence the aperture setting)
I'm shooting in a warehouse (hence the ISO - the ambient lighting here is wretched)
I'm shooting through an Umbrella but I have tried direct flash as well.
My flash is only about 2 feet from the chair I am trying to photograph.
My Exposure Compensation & Flash Compensation are set to zero.
I'm using pocket wizards
http://goo.gl/5wfglu
My Flash mode is set to TTL FP (I reset my flash, but it didn't help anything)
Lens 42mm
 
Thank you For all of the quick replies guys!

Answers to your questions:
I'm shooting Furniture for an e-commerce site (hence the aperture setting)
I'm shooting in a warehouse (hence the ISO - the ambient lighting here is wretched)
I'm shooting through an Umbrella but I have tried direct flash as well.
My flash is only about 2 feet from the chair I am trying to photograph.
My Exposure Compensation & Flash Compensation are set to zero.
I'm using pocket wizards
http://goo.gl/5wfglu
My Flash mode is set to TTL FP (I reset my flash, but it didn't help anything)
Lens 42mm

It might help us if you upload a photo in question here and include the EXIF data.


Guidelines to adding a photo to your post.

1. Resize photo to 1000px on the long side.
2. Resolution set to 72ppi (Pixels Per Inch)

These guidelines will be good for viewing on a computer but will not be good for printing. This will help safeguard your copyright.







 

Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
So I have used SB800s for years, and they are powerful little portable strobes; However, I consistently have issues with them not giving me even close to enough light when I have a really low aperture AND I am using my 24-70 Nikkor lens. The flash is being triggered via FlexTT5 mini Pocket Wizards. I have yet to figure out why this happens. I would love some insight. Thanks in advance

- ISO 200 (needs to stay low)
- F16 (needs to stay low)
- SS 1/80 (can't go any slower)


- Charity
Maybe some monolights?
....
 

singlerosa_RIP

Senior Member
So if you're shooting only a chair (and not a whole living room), why do you need f/16? If the ambient light is bad, why not bump up the ISO a bit? When I deviate from your settings (try f/10, ISO 800), it makes a big difference. Or, maybe you need additional flashes.....
 

WayneF

Senior Member
The FP is not a factor, it just means your E1 menu is Auto FP, but it has no effect at 1/80 second, still regular speedlight. And the 1/80 second has no effect on flash. f/16 does though.

Two feet is measured how? Chair to the light stand? To the umbrella fabric? Reflected or shoot through fabric? Rhetorical.

But this picture is the SB-800 in a 40 inch white reflected umbrella, and the flash body is intentionally two feet from the nearest arm of the chair - just for spite. :) But the flash is aimed the other way, into the reflected umbrella, so two trips along the umbrella shaft adds about four feet. So the light is six feet from the near arm, and about eight feet from the more distant parts of the chair. Six to eight feet is nearly one stop difference in the light across the span of the chair.

I think most chairs are really going to need two flash in two umbrellas. You could set the flash back farther to even the light out, but not at f/16.

801_0650.jpg


801_0640.jpg


It would surely mean more to see YOUR picture of YOUR situation, but in absence, I'm just trying to substitute one.

The top one is TTL mode, the second one is TTL BL mode (no other adjustments of any kind).

D800 Matrix metering and SB-800. These are 1/80 f/16 ISO 200 at "two feet" (back of flash body to the nearest point of chair). But the loss is well more than six feet, due to also the reflection loss at the fabric. It is a dark picture, which is just how TTL meters sometimes (this one used a hot shoe extension cord to the flash). This one seriously needs two flashes and umbrellas, to even it out.

I don't really know what the TT5 can do about mode, but you can select Spot Metering on the camera. Since you are not in bright light, so the dim underexposed ambient situation will not be affected by Spot (it's too weak for us to care what it meters). The flash system never uses Spot metering anyway (or Matrix - those are about ambient, and flash has its own central system), but Spot will change TTL BL to be TTL mode, and you should see a little brighter image. And TTL mode also rules out any harmful D-lens effects.

We certainly need to understand Spot metering to use it in any bright ambient situation where it definitely has major effect. But when the ambient is so far below the flash (indoors), Spot has no effect except to convert the flash system from TTL BL to be TTL, often a plus. And in Manual camera mode, Spot could not adjust the camera settings anyway.
Saying... Spot metering will change TTL BL to be TTL mode, often good effect, and indoors (dim ambient) in manual camera mode, it has no other effect. This is worth considering (indoors).

I don't think this result is so unusual for TTL, metering just varies, and we just compensate flash as we see is needed. That is what photographers do. We can moan and groan, but simply just fixing it helps a lot more. :) The idea is to simply do what we see we need to do. It's our job. Make it look like you want it to look. It is very unrealistic to imagine the camera (a dumb computer) can always get it right.

This one case is not power, not quite yet. The SB-800 flash has a little more power, able to do up to 1.67 stops more compensation in this second case, which helps it. I did not show it here, but it has enough more to help.

I do usually try to get flash exposure closer, but it can also be adjusted in raw. I did not here.
 
Last edited:
Top