Elinchrom D-Lite RX 4 or Bowens 400Rx

I need some help.
similar price
Both 400 Ws.
Elinchrom: umbrella+softbox
GN=?
weight 11,4 kg
Power Accuracy:: 1/1, ½, 4/10, 1/3, 2/10 or 1/10 steps


Bowens 2x umbrella
GN 60
weight 24 kg
Power Accuracy: steeples


So what do you recommend? I should mention that I have a very limited (small) space. I need something for portrait and product photography.
Elinchrom looks plastic and cheap. But i like power accuracy 1/10 steps.
In small area is better umbrella or softbox?
GN 60 mean that on 1m (at min power 1/32) aperture will be f/11 or f/8 light loss because of diffusion) perhaps even f/ 5.6. Is this true?

I read the Bowens 400RX spec as saying GN 262 (feet), GN 80 (meters). However, this would be true of maximum power with the furnished bare reflector, not likely how it will be used. If you put an umbrella or softbox on it, it would be a very new situation (lower output). And hard to measure distance than, so normally, light meters are used to determine exposure instead of GN.

Guide Number is distance * fstop. So GN 60 (meters) means at 1m, the proper aperture would be 60m / 1m = f/60. Or 60m / 6 m = f/10, or 60m / 10 m = f/6, etc.

If full power GN were 60, then at 5 stops down (1/32 power), new GN would be 60 / (1.414^5) = GN 10.6 (meters). This would mean at 1 m, then GN 10.6 / 1m = f/10.6. But the spec I see seems to say GN 80 (meters), GN 14 at 1/32 power, which is only true if using the furnished bare reflector.

Again, umbrellas or softbox will discard the GN for some new lower one.


You said very small space, and you said 400 watt seconds. I think you will find that to be excessive power. These turn down to 1/32 power, but in a small space, you will always be running them near minimum, 1/16 anyway, or maybe less. Such lights are their slowest longest duration at low power, and also their reddest white balance. I think there is advantage of a smaller light operated higher on its range. A normal speedlght is near 75 watt seconds, for example (which is quite a bit of light, esp in small space).

I use a 160 watt second Alienbees in a Large (40 inch) softbox, not more than three feet from the portrait subject (for maximum softness), turned down to about 1/8 power, and shoot at f/8 to f/10 at ISO 100.
A double power unit would simply have to be turned down to 1/16 power (which I find excessive). I wish I could buy a 80 watt second light (like a speedlight), but built like the studio light (AC, recycle, cooling, open flash tube, modifiers, etc).

High power is used for greater distances, large spaces.

First of all, thanks for the reply.
I checked GN is 60 (m).
On website: GN Calculator | DPanswers
is easily obtain the aperture


GN 60 on 1 m and 1/32 give aperture 10.6. Theory….
But I try Quantuum 300 Ws, GN 58 (I doubt ).
at 1m and 1/16 get f/2.8, (or 1/1, same distance f/16). How is this possible?

GN is about what the light meter might measure. GN is a simple calculation that simplifies the inverse square law falloff.
GN / distance = fstop.
GN 60 means 1 meter at f/60, or 6 meters at f/10, or 10 meters at f/6, etc (and any other combination)..

But what the light meter reads depends on both the power level, and also the reflector coverage. A wide reflector might illuminate the entire wall (distributing the power), where a narrow reflector concentrates the power into just a bright spot on the wall. The same flash unit will have very different GN in these cases (what the light meter will read is very different).

We can only compare GN at the same coverage angle. It takes much power to illuminate the whole wide wall, much less power to light a small spot on the wall. If comparing same known coverage, the GN can compare power levels, but unknown coverage tells absolutely nothing. GN is as much about the reflector as it is about the power.

For the GN 60 to have meaning, it has to specify how it is measured (what reflector coverage, etc). It probably means the provided bare reflector, which would let us use GN (with that bare reflector), but to compare it, we have to know what coverage that is. We can only compare GN at like coverages.

Speedlights zoom the reflector, and of course they have many GN, for each zoom coverage (see the GN chart in the manual).

Use an umbrella or a softbox or a grid, and it will change the GN. The light meter will be vastly more useful for studio lights.

Speedlights can use GN for direct bare flash, but it is unknown for bounce, or for umbrellas, etc.

Something bothers me. Thay say that everything depends on the softbox ?
Small diffuser si less than 0,65 m2.
Medium 0,65-1,3 m2.
Large: more than 1,3 m3.


For small diffuser (5 stop strobe) appropriate 200 Ws.
For medium 300-400 Ws.
For Large 500-1000 Ws.


Fot the object photograph i need aperture f/8-f/16 (perhaps even f/22). In this case, a small space should not be a problem? OK, shadows. Solve apparently the glass base?


Well sometimes i would like to do the portrait.Yes now I need more space.
I need additional 2 m (distance to the background because of shadows).
For portraits i need medium softbox (to 1,3 m2), therfore 300-400 Ws.
Subject to diffuser distance must be 1-2 times the diagonal of the diffuser. The kit Bowesn 400 rx contains umbrellas 90 cm. Therefore, this kit the most useful at a distance of 90-180 cm.
At 1.8 m (1/32) we get f/5.9 =f5.6 (-1 or 2 stop)


If I am right remains the only problem ceiling height.This means bye bye umbrella and welcome diffuser?


Can anyone tell me the relations between size of the space and Ws.
For product photogray would probably suffice 3x3 m?
For half torso portrait 4x5 m?
Sorry if I'm too long

kiwi86 said:

Small diffuser si less than 0,65 m2.
Medium 0,65-1,3 m2.
Large: more than 1,3 m3.


For small diffuser (5 stop strobe) appropriate 200 Ws.
For medium 300-400 Ws.
For Large 500-1000 Ws.


Fot the object photograph i need aperture f/8-f/16 (perhaps even f/22). In this case, a small space should not be a problem? OK, shadows. Solve apparently the glass base?

Click to expand...

For portraits, I use a 40 inch (1 meter) Large softbox at arms length (usually 30 inches) with a 160 watt second light turned down to less than 1/4 power, for about f/8 ISO 100. Each f/stop above that would be double power, ie, f/22 is 3 more stops and 8x more power (than f/8).

My space (after I move furniture) is about 10x19x10 feet (sideways in a larger room). I have a couple of 320 watt second lights, but I very much prefer to use my 160 watt second lights (to avoid turning them down so much). I use one of the 320 watt seconds in a very huge 5 foot umbrella behind the camera for fill light at ten feet from subject, turned down to 1/8 power. The other big one is in a grid for background (relatively unimportant there).

The problem with excessive power is that sometimes it cannot be turned down far enough to be usable, esp in a small space.

Before spending a lot of money, I think a very good plan would be to rent some lights one time, just for the experience of seeing what they actually are. Local photography clubs often have light sets that can be loaned to members.

Can anyone tell me the relations between size of the space and Ws.

Click to expand...

The relation is not to the size of the light box. We can put a speedlight (about 75 watt seconds) in a huge softbox or umbrella. We can bounce a speedlight from a huge wall or ceiling, etc.

The power relation is to the subject distance, fstop, and ISO.

For product photogray would probably suffice 3x3 m?
For half torso portrait 4x5 m?

Click to expand...

The "rule of thumb" (for soft light) is that an X size softbox or umbrella can cover a subject area about X size when about X distance from it, and be acceptably soft.

1 meter high half torso... 1 meter softbox at 1 meter distance works.

2 meter high standing full length, 2 meter softbox at 2 meters works.

Again, the power is not about the softbox size, it is about the distance, fstop, and ISO. But large boxes are used to cover greater areas at greater distances.

Here is a review which covers the Bowens. It may not answer all of your questions but will give you more info concerning the two kits.

Best studio flash kits? 6 models tested and rated | Digital Camera World

Up to now, all recommend a stronger model. Hm ?
But I have another question.
Between 160 and 320 Ws is the difference 1 STOP?
Between 160 and 400 approximately 1,5?

kiwi86 said:

Between 160 and 320 Ws is the difference 1 STOP?
Between 160 and 400 approximately 1,5?

Click to expand...

Yes, double ws is 1 stop.

160 to 400 is more like 1.33 stops. You can compare ws numbers the same way as ISO.

Watt seconds is rated electrical input, the energy in the capacitor charge (basically, 1/2 CV² ).

Different flash brands might have not have the same efficiencies in creating lumens of light from it.