Blacktops journey with flash.

Blacktop

Senior Member
I've been reading about maximum flash sync speed, and front and rear curtains, and FP shutters for the last couple of hours. My mind is going to explode if I read anymore.
 

Blacktop

Senior Member
The reason I'm reading about all this, is that I'm trying to figure out how to use fill flash for shooting flowers outside in the daytime.
My D300 doesn't have a fill flash button.:rolleyes:
 

WayneF

Senior Member
The reason I'm reading about all this, is that I'm trying to figure out how to use fill flash for shooting flowers outside in the daytime.
My D300 doesn't have a fill flash button.:rolleyes:

Simple. The easy way (fill flash in bright sun) is to use camera P mode for the sunlight.

Use TTL BL mode for the fill. (that means balanced flash, i.e., fill flash in bright sun, but DO NOT use Spot metering for this).

If using a flash without an overt TTL / TTL BL menu (the camera internal flash or a SB-700 or SB-400 or Yongnuo, etc), it will be TTL BL mode by default. If it has a TTL / TTL BL menu, select TTL BL.

Ta da.

There are a few other good ways, and you can use Flash Compensation to vary the level that the automation does, but first try above will be pretty good.
 
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Michael J.

Senior Member
Wayne I would like to thank you very much, even it is not my thread, for your input.

Pete, I am not that sorry I should be, that I posted in your thread. :)
 

Blacktop

Senior Member
Thank you Wayne for this simple explanation. I never would have thought to use the P mode. I've been trying to do this in Aperture priority.
Also been using Spot metering.

My in camera flash doesn't have a TLL-BLT mode, just a TLL plus some other manual flash settings mode.
I'm going to try your tip and report back later when I get home.
 

WayneF

Senior Member
Thank you Wayne for this simple explanation. I never would have thought to use the P mode. I've been trying to do this in Aperture priority.
Also been using Spot metering.

My in camera flash doesn't have a TLL-BLT mode, just a TLL plus some other manual flash settings mode.
I'm going to try your tip and report back later when I get home.



Camera P mode is not essential, it is just easy. There are other ways, but P mode knows how to do it (fill flash in bright sun).

Camera A or M mode works too, and would be the same if you set the same aperture as P, however then you have to know that Sunny 16 will require an aperture up near f/11 or so in bright sun. Because, shutter speed cannot exceed maximum flash sync speed (in the ball park of 1/200 second maximum with flash), requiring the aperture to be stopped down. Sunny 16 says bright sun (at ISO 100) exposure is 1/100 second at f/16, or 1/200 second at f/11. P mode knows about all of that, does it automatically. If camera A or M, you have to know it. :) If you start off in A mode by setting say f/5.6, you just see an error flashing, because the camera cannot change aperture in A mode, and f/5.6 is not going to work in bright sun (at maximum sync speed shutter speed).

In bright sun, the TTL BL system will automatically underexpose the flash about -2 EV, which 1) does not overexpose the subject with TWO correct exposures adding, and 2) is just about right degree for fill flash in bright sun.

And Spot metering changes the flash mode from TTL BL to instead be TTL mode, and then TTL is NOT balanced fill flash. TTL mode (and thus Spot metering mode which forces TTL mode) will try to give full flash exposure, regardless of any ambient (not because flash is Spot metering - the flash does not do Spot, but it does change the flash to TTL mode. There is no concept of background in ambient Spot metering, so there can be no balanced flash. Exif shows this mode that was used.

If using Spot metering, then you get TTL mode (instead of TTL BL), so then it has to be you that sets about -2 EV flash compensation, but then that works fine too (fill flash in bright sun).

The flash menus that simply say TTL (internal flash, SB-700, SB-400, Commander, etc) are in fact TTL BL mode by default.
I can't swear that every third party flash is the same, but surely most are - Nikon is a TTL BL system. It is the camera that does this. The Exif wil show what it has done, but can be confusing to decipher.

We of course have to account for the bright sun too, and P mode does this. Some choose to underexpose the sun a stop or two, to darken the background (it is another "look", a choice), and camera mode A or M can easily do that, but then, you would use TTL mode, not TTL BL mode. Then Spot metering can force TTL Mode in flashes otherwise without an overt menu.

So then, maybe we intentionally underexpose the ambient background -2 EV, and then fully expose with the flash. Makes the subject stand out against the background, but can have a unnatural look. Actually, this ambient underexposure is done more for sports action, so the ambient at 1/200 second won't blur the action (the flash is faster). Technically, this becomes ambient fill for flash instead of vice versa. :)
 
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Blacktop

Senior Member
Thanks again Wayne. I think I'll just start with the P mode and Matrix metering and slowly work my way up when I start to understand all this stuff.
I'm sure it's not as complicated as it sounds right now.
 

WayneF

Senior Member
Camera P mode and flash TTL BL mode (default) is as simple as it gets. Just keep it out of Spot metering mode, and push the shutter button. :) You will like it. That is what the Nikon Balanced flash mode does.

But less automation has to take a few other things into account.

The camera internal flash probably does not have enough power for f/11. Its guide number of 40 computes maybe 7 feet at most (ISO 100), to still be 2 stops down for fill. If more distant, then it provides less flash.
 
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Blacktop

Senior Member
Camera P mode and flash TTL BL mode (default) is as simple as it gets. Just keep it out of Spot metering mode, and push the shutter button. :) You will like it. That is what the Nikon Balanced flash mode does.

But less automation has to take a few other things into account.

The camera internal flash probably does not have enough power for f/11. Its guide number of 40 computes maybe 7 feet at most (ISO 100), to still be 2 stops down for fill. If more distant, then it provides less flash.

I take my flower shots pretty close up . I'm going outside in a few minutes to try it out. Will post a few results for comparison .
 

WayneF

Senior Member
Sorry, I forgot about flowers. :) Internal flash should be fine for closeups. I was thinking human portraits, and for proper perspective of human faces, we really don't want to get closer than maybe 7 feet.
 

Blacktop

Senior Member
i took my 18-55 outside. It's hot out there. Tomorrow I'll try it with my 55-200 and see if I can get some bokeh happening since the flash is stopping down my apertture to stay within the maximum shutter speed allowed.

I took 3 sets of shots 2 a piece. The first shot in each set is without flash, the second is with flash. Matrix metering in P mode.
Shot in RAW and converted in LR to Jpegs, no processing done at all.

flash experiments-1788.jpg

flash experiments-1789.jpg

flash experiments-1795.jpg

flash experiments-1796.jpg

flash experiments-1799.jpg

flash experiments-1800.jpg
 

TedG954

Senior Member
Without processing, I prefer the shots with flash, though I believe that D-Lighting or some other processing would improve the non-flash shots.

Most of us will post-process our photos and that's the only way for me to pick a real preference.
 

Blacktop

Senior Member
Without processing, I prefer the shots with flash, though I believe that D-Lighting or some other processing would improve the non-flash shots.

Most of us will post-process our photos and that's the only way for me to pick a real preference.

Just experimenting with fill flash for the first time. Thanks for your thoughts.
 

Michael J.

Senior Member
i took my 18-55 outside. It's hot out there. Tomorrow I'll try it with my 55-200 and see if I can get some bokeh happening since the flash is stopping down my apertture to stay within the maximum shutter speed allowed.

I took 3 sets of shots 2 a piece. The first shot in each set is without flash, the second is with flash. Matrix metering in P mode.
Shot in RAW and converted in LR to Jpegs, no processing done at all.

View attachment 97555

View attachment 97556

View attachment 97557

View attachment 97558

View attachment 97559

View attachment 97560

Great comparison. Seeing is believing and understanding. Thanks for your time to show the result.
 

Blacktop

Senior Member
@ Michael. Thank you. That is why I didn't do any post processing on these. You can make anything look like anything in PP so what would be the point?
I'm going outside now with my telephoto to see what it does at a longer distance. I think I was too close with my 18-55hence the shadow on the first set.
 

WayneF

Senior Member
Tomorrow I'll try it with my 55-200 and see if I can get some bokeh happening since the flash is stopping down my aperture to stay within the maximum shutter speed allowed.

Stopping down is not for the lens, it is for the shutter sync. Another lens won't change it.

We could use Auto FP HSS flash mode, for a much faster shutter speed and corresponding wider aperture, however the internal flash cannot do FP flash. Nor can SB-300/SB-400 flash models. SB-600/700/800/900 can.

You could use D300 Auto FP mode in 1/320 second sync choice. The internal flash still cannot/will not do FP mode (at faster shutter speeds), but it can do 1/320 second then, which can widen aperture slightly (and which is still regular flash, not yet actually FP mode).
 
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