Some basic questions on the SB-700

I have had an SB-700 for a few years now. I use it with a D3100. I finally am starting to learn the in's and out's of it and as expected, some basic questions pop up. Here are a few to start:

1) When I shoot in TTL mode, there is a little bar graph to the right of the screen of the flash. It gives the range in feet that I should be able to use the flash, I believe. I have learned that there is only one optimal distance for a flash so how can that range they show be so big?? My guess is that the range bargraph includes power adjustments by the flash so that if you are below the bargraph, the flash can not reduce power any more so you will be over-exposed; conversely, if you are above the the upper limit of the bargraph (too far of a distance), the flash has maxed out its power input and the shot would be under-exposed. Is that correct thinking??

2) The illumination pattern adds one more level of complexity for me. Currently, in TTL mode, I use flash compensation to adjust to the proper flash exposure. How do you use the Illumination Pattern? I can see two scenarios: 1) Any wide angle shot, throw the switch to wide angle; and conversely, any close up shot (ie. portrait), throw into the focused (center weighted) mode. 2) The other way I can see it being used would be to use the normal illumination pattern for everything, but then use the wide angle if your light is falling off on the edges, or center weighted when you need to eke out a little more light on your subject or give a silhouette type portrait. I suppose either method will work but since I am a beginner, I just wanted to get a feeling on how other people use it so I can make it a regular part of my routine while I'm still teachable.

3) I really like the GN mode on this flash but I don't see when I would use it since all I hear about in my reading is that direct flash is too harsh, flat, etc. Can someone give me an example of when I would use direct flash (and then maybe GN mode) other than when I am shooting from far and I need every bit of power I can get. I'm not talking about using GN vs. TTL mode, that is well addressed by Wayne in "Four fundamentals", ie. GN is not fooled by the metering, it just gives you the proper exposure at a given distance with the ISO and F stop you have. I guess to simplify my question, When would I want to shot with direct flash?? Maybe the answer is, when I have no other choice!!! But even if I don't have a surface to bounce off of, I can slap on the tupperware diffusion dome to try to soften the light. Does anyone use GN mode??

4) During my practice session, I had my daughter sit eight feet away. I was bouncing between 90 and 60 degrees. Camera was on F 5.6, shutter 1/60 (in A mode), Iso 400, 80 mm on lens. The ceiling is a flat (non-textured white) and is 8 feet high. I was using TTL, not TTL-Bal since I was in single point focus. I too found that in TTL mode, I was getting under-exposed photos and I had to use +2 flash compensation. At that level, I was getting 3 seconds of blinks from the flash. Does this sound right that I am maxing out the flash with this type of basic shot?? I did notice when I upped the iso to 800 or 1600, I had plenty of flash power. It just seems I would never be able to use bounce much at 400 Indoors without maxing the flash out unless I buy a faster lens then the Tamron 18-270mm

Revet said:

I have had an SB-700 for a few years now. I use it with a D3100. I finally am starting to learn the in's and out's of it and as expected, some basic questions pop up. Here are a few to start:

1) When I shoot in TTL mode, there is a little bar graph to the right of the screen of the flash. It gives the range in feet that I should be able to use the flash, I believe. I have learned that there is only one optimal distance for a flash so how can that range they show be so big?? My guess is that the range bargraph includes power adjustments by the flash so that if you are below the bargraph, the flash can not reduce power any more so you will be over-exposed; conversely, if you are above the the upper limit of the bargraph (too far of a distance), the flash has maxed out its power input and the shot would be under-exposed. Is that correct thinking??

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Right, the bar graph distances are about the range of the possible flash power levels. It shows the potential range that is possible for TTL to adjust to (at present ISO and aperture).

2) The illumination pattern adds one more level of complexity for me. Currently, in TTL mode, I use flash compensation to adjust to the proper flash exposure. How do you use the Illumination Pattern? I can see two scenarios: 1) Any wide angle shot, throw the switch to wide angle; and conversely, any close up shot (ie. portrait), throw into the focused (center weighted) mode. 2) The other way I can see it being used would be to use the normal illumination pattern for everything, but then use the wide angle if your light is falling off on the edges, or center weighted when you need to eke out a little more light on your subject or give a silhouette type portrait. I suppose either method will work but since I am a beginner, I just wanted to get a feeling on how other people use it so I can make it a regular part of my routine while I'm still teachable.

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I have no idea either. My flashes are SB-800 without that pattern adjustment, and I've always gotten by. The patterns are just subtle zoom adjustments, a little wider or a little less wide zoom. Without a good reason, I would just leave it on Standard.

3) I really like the GN mode on this flash but I don't see when I would use it since all I hear about in my reading is that direct flash is too harsh, flat, etc. Can someone give me an example of when I would use direct flash (and then maybe GN mode) other than when I am shooting from far and I need every bit of power I can get. I'm not talking about using GN vs. TTL mode, that is well addressed by Wayne in "Four fundamentals", ie. GN is not fooled by the metering, it just gives you the proper exposure at a given distance with the ISO and F stop you have. I guess to simplify my question, When would I want to shot with direct flash?? Maybe the answer is, when I have no other choice!!! But even if I don't have a surface to bounce off of, I can slap on the tupperware diffusion dome to try to soften the light. Does anyone use GN mode??

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Peterson wrote a book centering on using GN flash mode. It is a beginners book, and is greatly dumbed down (the way of today I think). He says use GN mode (the calculator), but he never explains what GN is. But its serious weakness is that he totally rules out and ignores TTL mode. He says TTL metering can be variable, and instead of mentioning flash compensation to fix it, he says forget it. Then for bounce, he says just open two stops. LOL.

But really, direct flash is not that bad. Not soft like an umbrella, but not necessarily bad. What is bad is direct flash from the camera position. Miserably flat, uninteresting. An umbrella at the camera would be poor too.

Get it off off camera, and it's vastly better (adds gradient shadow toning) For example, our Sun is direct too, but it is off camera. Both cases do need a little fill to make the shadows not so harsh.

Put the SB-700 as a bare direct light about 45 degrees high and wide of subject, and add fill from camera popup flash (at reduced fill level, about -1.3 EV down - or adjusted visually to lighten but not eliminate the 45 degree shadows) and it can be better than anything except umbrellas. The popup will trigger the SB-700 in its SU-4 slave mode. Both flashes are manual mode of course. Try it, then you know, and its not bad at all, can be quite good.

The dome is still tiny, can't soften like an umbrella could, and won't change much in that regard. The actual purpose of the dome is to provide direct forward spill for bounce, for fill, and most importantly, to create catchlights in the eyes (which makes a big difference). Usually the dome is too much, obliterating the bounce shadows. A small bounce card works better. Use the pullout bounce card for this purpose with bounce (primarily for catchlights). It is NOT too small. If too much fill when close, you don't have to pull it all the way out.

4) During my practice session, I had my daughter sit eight feet away. I was bouncing between 90 and 60 degrees. Camera was on F 5.6, shutter 1/60 (in A mode), Iso 400, 80 mm on lens. The ceiling is a flat (non-textured white) and is 8 feet high. I was using TTL, not TTL-Bal since I was in single point focus.

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It is only actual Spot Metering mode (on the tiny rotating camera dial) that switches the SB-700 to TTL mode. Single point focus does not cause TTL. Ideally in dim ambient (where we need flash), TTL BL ought to mimic TTL, but sometimes it needs a little +EV compensation. No big deal, just do what you see you need to do. We have to watch both modes.

The Exif shows the flash mode, in the Maker section. There are some ifs and buts about the Exif tools.

I too found that in TTL mode, I was getting under-exposed photos and I had to use +2 flash compensation. At that level, I was getting 3 seconds of blinks from the flash. Does this sound right that I am maxing out the flash with this type of basic shot?? I did notice when I upped the iso to 800 or 1600, I had plenty of flash power. It just seems I would never be able to use bounce much at 400 Indoors without maxing the flash out unless I buy a faster lens then the Tamron 18-270mm

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The three immediate blinks is saying that the flash is at full power, and probably could not comply with your request for power. You need wider aperture or higher ISO or closer subject distance. The flash LCD then tells you how much more power was instead needed, see SB-700 manual page C-5. If it just says 0 EV is needed, you're OK, it was just at maximum. If it says more, then you were underexposed, relative to its metering.

I was on Spot metering Wayne, I just forgot what to call it so I was in TTL mode, not TTL-BL. Actually, I found out what the problem was. When I actually downloaded and looked at the photos in Lightroom; those underexposed photos I thought I had were actually maybe slightly overexposed in the face. The reason I thought they were underexposed on the little LCD camera display was that I used a dark background and it showed up over on the right side of the histogram. The face was just a small barely visible area on the right side. I wish the D3100 had a zoom function on when previewing the shot. (It probably does, I just need to learn how to use it!!)

Here is my next issue. I did get a couple of shots that I was able to soften the flash with bounce (90 degrees with the card out seemed best). I then tweaked it a little in Lightroom. I brought the two shots up in compare mode on the computer and showed my wife my handy work. She looked at them and immediately said she liked the one on the left (Direct on camera flash) better than the right (90 bounce). Give me strength!!!

Thanks for that tip on using GN or manual mode off camera. I will try that tonight. I can see how GN mode would work nicely here, just measure the distance and plug it in, or just adjust manually to the desired effect. I don't get what you mean by "about 45 degrees high and wide of subject". I think it means that if the camera is at 0 degrees to the subject, move the flash out at a 45 degree angle. If that is correct, what is the high and wide part. Does that mean elevate the flash to keep shadows low? If so that explains the high part, then what is meant by wide?? Maybe I should stop guessing and let you tell me what you mean there. LOL

Read more: http://nikonites.com/flashes/18668-some-basic-questions-sb-700-a.html#ixzz2n5JCMM4a

Revet said:

Here is my next issue. I did get a couple of shots that I was able to soften the flash with bounce (90 degrees with the card out seemed best). I then tweaked it a little in Lightroom. I brought the two shots up in compare mode on the computer and showed my wife my handy work. She looked at them and immediately said she liked the one on the left (Direct on camera flash) better than the right (90 bounce). Give me strength!!!

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Well, wives have different notions sometimes, mine surprises me with the reasons for her choices too. The choice may not have been about the obvious lighting factors as such. But direct light from on-camera is flat, even to a fault. Maybe it makes shadows behind the subject, but not ON the subject, which is all flat and even. So flat will fill and hide shapes like wrinkles, where side lighting makes shadows in them which shows better. Like craters on the moon, hardly visible at full moon, but very visible near terminator. Soft lighting from an umbrella there would hide them again, and still leave some interesting gradients. Or it could just be a facial expression she preferred, etc. Or it shows her new ear ring better. We have to learn to ask "why?".

Thanks for that tip on using GN or manual mode off camera. I will try that tonight. I can see how GN mode would work nicely here, just measure the distance and plug it in, or just adjust manually to the desired effect. I don't get what you mean by "about 45 degrees high and wide of subject". I think it means that if the camera is at 0 degrees to the subject, move the flash out at a 45 degree angle. If that is correct, what is the high and wide part. Does that mean elevate the flash to keep shadows low? If so that explains the high part, then what is meant by wide?? Maybe I should stop guessing and let you tell me what you mean there. LOL

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Yes, 45 high and wide was a pretty fast description.

High means maybe up to about 45 degrees above the subjects head level, aimed down some. Sort of to mimic the suns high position, which we are accustomed to. Specifically, to cause shadows that the lens will see, on nose and far cheek, etc, to add modeling and interest, not flat and uninteresting. We intend to fill those shadows, and/or soften them, to not be harsh, to still add NATURAL tonal shading on the face. These natural gradient tonal variations show shape and depth of the subject, adds interest. The opposite of deer in the headlights. Shadows are good and natural and extremely desirable, we just have to fill them a bit, to be less noticeable (but still present and contributing).

And about 45 degrees wide, around towards the side from the camera (with respect to the subject). Exactly how wide is the basis of the various names of the setup. Maybe this is a good first introduction:
The Five Basic Portrait-Lighting Setups | Photography How To Articles
or here
6 Portrait Lighting Patterns Every Photographer Should Know - Digital Photography School

I don't worry much with the names, or the exact position (except I repeat my favorite). But be aware, Paramount (Butterfly) is for young perfect skin, movie starlets, and Rembrandt is high contrast, more for men. I just aim for about 45 high and wide, (more like Loop), and then pay attention to make sure shadows in eye sockets are OK, and that there are highlights on both cheeks. Light too far around misses far cheek. Subject is constantly turning anyway.

However, a more basic concept to know first is broad or short lighting

Broad Side vs Short Side Lighting, what’s the difference? | Expert Photo Training

The face turned a little away from the main light hides more of the the dark side and fully shows the bright side, which is called broad lighting. This makes faces look wider, broader because more of face is illuminated fully.

The face turned a little into the main light hides more of the bright side and shows more of the dark side, which makes the face look thinner, called narrow lighting. This is probably the norm.

LOL on the wife. My first question to her was why??? She couldn't tell me. Too each there own I guess. Maybe what I will do is post the two photos here when I get home later. Maybe there is a glaring problem with my attempt at softer light. Regardless, I'm sure it could only benefit me to get some opinions.

Thanks for the references on portrait lighting. I will tackle those after I finish the Four fundamentals we must know.

Here are the two photos. The one on the left is the direct flash shot, the one on the right is the bounce at 90 degrees with the card pulled out all the way. Personally, I think the right one is much better but I am open to critique. I'm going to try off flash when I get a chance but any improvements in the on camera bounce on the right would be helpful (That's how us non-right brained people have to learn!!).

I like the one on the right too. I'm wondering if it was a bit too close to the camera (perspective, might be her complaint?), but the color is better, esp the hair is a lot better. Camera should stand back 6 or 8 feet, for perspective, and to better allow 75 or 90 degree bounce fill the frontal face (eye sockets). Zoom in all you want, but just always stand a bit back with the camera. At least try it.

Bounce needs a lot of power, direct flash not much at all. High power makes the speedlight more red, and low power makes it more blue. Left one needs a little more red, color is really not good, not as healthy looking. You mentioned having Lightroom, and it has a great white balance tool. So to use it, try adding a white card to the first test shot in a situation, then select all in that same session (with same lighting), and click the white card, and presto, all are corrected, and it's as good as it gets. WB becomes a trivial problem, no problem at all. My subjects here just know to reach for the white card for first shot, I don't have to say anything. You might can use the gray background for that? (but I'd get the card). Raw would be best (greater range), but it works with JPG too. Raw is sort of a philosophy in itself, there is a little to it, but its all advantage, vast advantages.

I'd suggest this WB card also as good as it gets (plastic, accurate, durable, washable, and inexpensive, and all you can possibly need to do the job first class). But until available, just use a sheet of cheap plain white copy paper (or could be an envelope or letter from an envelope) to add the scene (have her hold it under her chin for the first test shot - in the same light). That will be 90 or 95%, vastly better than nothing.

Direct flash ought to stand the subject farther from the background due to the shadow back there. A few feet instead of a few inches. It will easily disappear with a soft umbrella. Off-camera direct will aggravate that, then the shadow will be 45 degrees to the side, very visible, and terrible if it shows that much. Greater separation of background moves that 45 degree shadow sideways too, out of frame with just slight planning.

Actually they were shot from the same distance, both at 8 feet. In the second shot, I did some cropping to show my wife how the face has taken a more 3d look to it versus the very flat first shot with direct flash. It is pretty cool to see that BTW. I do have a white balance card and use it all the time with the eye dropper in white room, just didn't do it with these shots. Also, I always shoot in RAW because I am a Lightroom Junky and Raw is so much better to post-process. I am a little jealous though because I paid twice as much for my white card and if it ever rains, it's toast. Watch for the off camera shots tomorrow to see what the next level of my photographic learning experience brings me.

BTW, She was about 3 feet from the wall for both shots, is that not far enough??

Revet said:

Actually they were shot from the same distance, both at 8 feet. In the second shot, I did some cropping to show my wife how the face has taken a more 3d look to it versus the very flat first shot with direct flash. It is pretty cool to see that BTW. I do have a white balance card and use it all the time with the eye dropper in white room, just didn't do it with these shots. Also, I always shoot in RAW because I am a Lightroom Junky and Raw is so much better to post-process. I am a little jealous though because I paid twice as much for my white card and if it ever rains, it's toast. Watch for the off camera shots tomorrow to see what the next level of my photographic learning experience brings me.

BTW, She was about 3 feet from the wall for both shots, is that not far enough??

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Great, I'm eager to see them too.

Sorry, it was my mistake then, I misjudged the background distance. If when lighting the background, you'd like more space to get the lights in there, but I'd have kept quiet if I realized it was three feet.

Here are two photos taken with the flash off camera high and wide. The flash was about 8 feet away on a 45, subject was 8 feet away also. f/5.6, 1/80, ISO 400

Left photo - 92 mm Power level of SB-700 1/16th pop-up fill flash = -1.3 compensation
Right Photo - 170 mm Power level of SB-700 1/16th pop-up flash = -0.7 compensation

I just noticed that I had my camera pop-up on rear curtain (Check your settings!!!!); the SB-700 on SU-4 mode. I don't know if this made much of a difference vs. a front curtain since the ambient is pretty much black without flash.

I could use some help on how I might improve the off camera and fill settings so and can start to develop an eye for portraits. I think the face is nicely shadowed but does that shadow on the neck detract from the photo?? (BTW, my daughter wants everyone to know she was very tired!!)

Comment on a previous post, getting back to white balance cards. The ones I purchased included a white and an 18% grey card; the white used for white balance, the grey for exposure. As I have read on the subject, it seems many people use the grey card for white balance adjustment. I am the type of person that wants it as close to correct as possible and then tweaking it for my taste after that. What is everyone's opinion on which card (white or grey) should be used in Lightroom to acquire the most accurate white balance??

Isn't that a lot better than on-camera direct flash? I like them, and my opinion is that these are better pictures, good pictures. Like, Duh?

Not a problem, but the main light could be a little higher, does not seem very high. 8 feet away under a 8 foot ceiling is is surely limited, but it could be closer, and the subject could be seated (both makes the light higher).

The neck shadow is "natural", it should not surprise anyone, no one notices. Slightly stronger fill could lighten it. Original point was just that bare direct flash is not that bad, if off-camera. So another option could be to bounce the light on ceiling, above that high and wide point, softer, but still from that direction. But the really big deal is that putting the main light in a close white reflected umbrella would essentially eliminate it... Gradient shading would remain, but it would be extremely soft, just a gradient.
Hint: That should be your next step An umbrella is like bounce, needs more power, but not as much more as ceiling bounce. The umbrella should be high and wide, but close, as close as possible to be soft as possible, which greatly helps power, and soft helps the picture. Close meaning with the light stand just barely out of the picture frame. Close is a big deal. Umbrella advantages over bounce is it is close, and can be moved and aimed at will.

We use umbrellas for fill lights too, but with much less advantage, because the direct bare frontal light is even (flat), lighting exactly what the lens sees, so nothing for it make shadows under.

I was curious about the details of origin of your -1.3EV compensation statement? How the number is determined? It could be done with Commander TTL of course, but I am assuming SU-4 remote and both lights being manual flash mode. Are you able to meter them? Metering is always good.

Rear curtain is unnecessary, but no problem at all. It is for slow shutter speeds which cause motion blur of the continuous ambient light, inapplicable here, but not a problem. The flash merely has to fire sometime when the shutter is open.

White balance - any neutral color card can work, white or gray or even black. White works best. Gray is fine, except the inks have to be carefully controlled to actually be neutral, and 18% cards control reflectance, not color. No claims made about color. But the gray card will be pretty close, and acceptable, but there is just no assurance it was controlled. There are "digital" gray cards, much lighter color than 18% (closer to white) that are color controlled for white balance (and pricey). Even black can work, but there is very little percentage difference in the three RGB color channels if very dark. White is better.

The only caution, don'put the white card too close to the lights. You DO NOT want it to be clipped at 255, it becomes meaningless then. But we don't want our portraits clipped either, and holding the white card in front of chest is likely not higher than 200, which is just fine, ideal. But yes, you could put an 18% card much closer to the lights before clipping it.

White is best is an opinion, many do use the gray card. But clicking that spot tells the software "I declare this spot to be neutral, make it be neutral". Neutral means equal RGB numbers in the color of that spot. Then it manipulates colors to make that spot actually have equal RGB components, which is neutral, no color cast there. Same change applied overall gives proper color, to correct the color of the light on the scene. Which works because we know our spot is actually neutral. Clicking a very light spot (white) will have higher numbers with greater channel differences, easier to detect and balance. Just saying, 1% difference at 200 is a color difference of 2 to be corrected. 1% at 100 is 1. 1% of 40 is not much in integers, but it can help serious cases, more than 1%. And a good white card is only $5.

Thanks for the input Wayne!! I had already started looking at umbrella's. I didn't know there were so many types. I assume I should start with a white one, translucent, not reflective (a shoot through type)?

Sorry about the EV value. I meant -1.3 flash compensation (which I did some fast calculus in my head on to arrive at an EV value!! LOL). So yes, both flashes were in Manual. I noticed that I could not use the GN mode on the SB-700 when in SU-4 mode. If I had it set up in TTL mode (instead of SU-4) and then use a commander like a D90 or D7200 to fire it, can it be used in GN mode then as a remote?

If you would, I re-posted a thread in the D3100 section about my pop-up flash that is giving me problems again (I forgot the title of it). You had responded to it a long time ago when I first posted it and would like your input.

Well, the reason I asked is you cannot set the remote flash to 1/2 power and the internal flash to 1/4 power, and then call that one stop difference. Two reasons... It has to be metered at the subject, flash distance is a factor. But even if equal distance, the SB-700 flash power is well more than the internal flash full power. 1/4 power means different things to them.

Adjusting them by eye, I would say you need slightly more fill level. Not to obliterate shadows, but to lighten them a bit, just a bit. If you obliterate them, you are back to bare direct frontal flash.

Here is a "white towel" method to judge exposure without a meter. Not something you want to do every time, but doing it at first guides your next sessions of similar lighting also.

Chuck Gardner's White Towel Exposure Method

I don't think GN mode is offered off camera - it does not know ISO and aperture then. You could compute it manually from the GN chart in manual.

There would be complications even if using GN mode. It will adjust power for a proper exposure, but it does not know you are going to add the fill light which adds more light. The sum of two is more than the brightest one. So adding fill means you would have to reduce exposure by 1/3 or 2/3 stop. If both lights were equal (at the subject), that would be 2x or one stop more. So, even if using a light meter, we meter each light individually for the ratio, and then meter both lights together for the exposure. Generally, adding fill has to be 1/3 or 2/3 stop more light, less exposure.

Get a white umbrella with a black cover. The black cover is used for reflected, to prevent rear spill. The black cover is simply removed for any shoot through use, so it works both ways, you have both. Shoot through puts 2/3 of the power out the back (reflected), so it needs to used very close. If not very close, there would no reason not to use reflected.

See Mounting Speedights in Umbrellas for more, and about mounting brackets, etc.
I would suggest the Smith Victor two umbrella kit there, it's very good.

I saw your posting about internal flash troubles, but sorry, I simply don't know. Not working right, it sounds like it needs repair.

Thanks, I was looking at exact item in the local camera store, I think that would feed my obsession for awhile. Concerning the pop-flash problem, I did buy the extended warranty (camera bodies are the only time I buy those things and it has paid off 3 times for me). Guess what, it expires tomorrow!!!! So I flew over to the camera shop to have them send it in for service and a free sensor clean. YEAH!!

Now, what do I do with myself for the next 2-3 weeks?? I guess this means everyone gets a break for a while from all my questions!!

Well, the problem is a bummer, but the warranty is good news. I think it will come back like a new one.

I bought the extra warranty for a D70S and a D300 (found the Nikon warranty cheap somewhere then), but never needed it. And now Nikon disallows any discount, so I passed on warranty for the D800, which is out of warranty now.