A Request For The Judges On The Monthly Assignments

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
I've been meaning to ask this for a while, and I understand the amount of time put in by the moderators on this forum already, so please know that I fully understand your time constraints and limitations.

With that in mind, given the thought, time and effort that many forum members put into the Monthly Assignments, would it be possible for the judge(s) to include a brief explanation of what it was about the images selected each month that made them choose those over the others? I know that most of us are pure hobbyists, and a full critique of each image is not only impractical but potentially a daunting idea for potential jurors, which is why I'm not asking for,\ or even remotely suggesting a Zack Arias type group critique. But a few words with each that point to how and why these particular images were held above the others would help those who were not selected perhaps understand why these were chosen above theirs.

Just an idea. :)
 

Marcel

Happily retired
Staff member
Super Mod
Jake, I like your idea as much as I'd hate having to do it. I'll just speak for myself so if other mods want to input their feelings.

I can only tell you that it's hard enough to get all moderators to cast their preference when the month ends that it would take years if we'd have to wait for comments as well. As you know (or should anyway), this moderation thing is a strictly voluntary work and as it is now with the volume of posts that appear everyday, I can't even go through the whole bunch. The way I try to make my selection, is first I make a count of likes and make a first selection of the entries that got the most "likes". Then I go through the images and make my own selection based only on my personal taste, then I wait for other mods to make their selections and then I compare the likes, make an average of other mods' selections and then publish the results.
I think it would be very hard to ask every mod to explain their selections and then make a resume of all of them even if it would be just for the 5 selections. So, for me, this would be a very impractical thing to do.

Now, as I understand that it could be a nice educational way to improve all participants, maybe we could (we will discuss it between us) have a parallel post where people could comment entries. We ask for the no comment thing only because it becomes just too darn tedious to go through every page post to be able to make a selection and we don't want to be influenced by the comments before casting our preference.

So let's see what other mods would like to add and maybe we can go from there. So thanks for your suggestion, but for me, I'd just pass for now.
 

gqtuazon

Gear Head
That's pretty much how I select my top images. I am also looking for an image that makes me say "wow" either with their creativity and what is being conveyed.

some images are good but I also look for something that stands out when compared to the other entries.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
Thanks for the response, Marcel, and as I said, I totally understand. I wasn't sure how the voting worked and whether you were still waiting for all mods to submit votes or whether it was just the thread originator. Even if each mod was to pick one and write a critique it would be helpful. Again, not to make work for folks, but to add some value to the results.
 

Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
... I am also looking for an image that makes me say "wow" either with their creativity and what is being conveyed.
Wow Factor is really nice and will definitely get my attention. Good composition is also primary in my consideration. This might seem likely a silly thing to have to point out, but, I also like entries that are in keeping with the guidelines of the challenge. It seems like there's always a few "clunkers" that just don't fit with the theme. They can be really, really good shots but if it's not in keeping with the theme, it's not going to get my vote.

As for my feeling's about giving some feedback on my selections, sure; I'd be willing to type up a sentence or two about why I chose a particular shot. Now, that being said, I would not be willing to take it any further; what I mean, more specifically by that is, my comments would NOT be an invitation to dialog with posters about why I chose Shot X over Shot Y for example.

...
 

Krs_2007

Senior Member
Seems like you all start with the amount likes for a portrait. Maybe just let the readers like the photo's they like and not limit to the amount likes they can do. This would help the mod's to easily select the top 5 and during the discussions of the top 5 a few lines can be captured during the voting process for each of the top 5.

I know its time consuming and you are all volunteers and I appreciate that, so just trying to add to the discussion with ideas.
 

mikew_RIP

Senior Member
Seems like you all start with the amount likes for a portrait. Maybe just let the readers like the photo's they like and not limit to the amount likes they can do. This would help the mod's to easily select the top 5 and during the discussions of the top 5 a few lines can be captured during the voting process for each of the top 5.

I know its time consuming and you are all volunteers and I appreciate that, so just trying to add to the discussion with ideas.


Well not that it will matter but i have stoped visiting that thread if i can only give 5 likes,how can you do that without waiting until the end,how do you know what will be posted later.
To me a far better rating system would be if every post could have a star rating like the critique posts,then we could award 1-5 stars
 

Chris3000

Senior Member
Well not that it will matter but i have stoped visiting that thread if i can only give 5 likes,how can you do that without waiting until the end,how do you know what will be posted later.
To me a far better rating system would be if every post could have a star rating like the critique posts,then we could award 1-5 stars

I agree with @mikew on this one :)

A comment about why the judges chose what they did would be awsome but I also understand/appreciate the fact that it is alot of work added each month.
 

gqtuazon

Gear Head
Well not that it will matter but i have stoped visiting that thread if i can only give 5 likes,how can you do that without waiting until the end,how do you know what will be posted later.
To me a far better rating system would be if every post could have a star rating like the critique posts,then we could award 1-5 stars

Mike- I understand what you are trying to point out about the limited likes.

However, with the star award system, how many members here are likely to utilize it if jdeg decides to invest and incorporate it? There are very few members that provides feedback on the photo evaluation thread for someone who ask to provide feedback on a single photo, what more if you have to judge over 100 entries?

The idea is to have the forum members involved with photography, keep their learning and passion going strong by sharing their images. The most important factor is that we should all have fun in doing so. The rest are just bragging rights for the winners. It does not imply that the rest are less skilled.
 

mikew_RIP

Senior Member
I understand all you reasons but the thing is ime a bit long in the tooth and if i place an entry in and get no likes because of the limit ime not bothered and can live with it,my thoughts are for the newcomers to photography,the forum and competitions,they could be entering pictures that deserve some recognition but get none,now not being limited to five likes allows us to appreciate what that member has done and there will still be some pictures that get more likes than others.
Having the one to five star system instead of likes in that thread would allow members to say even more about a picture ranging from 5 stars for thats a cracking entry to any lower amount to suit,my thoughts are it would only be the star system not comments so i dont see it would be any more bother for members to use,although i can see there may be problems setting it up.
Ime not an antagonist and i appreciate you taking the time to answer and explain your reasoning will let it drop now.:D
 

hark

Administrator
Staff member
Super Mod
Contributor
What I find a little disconcerting is how can newbies expect to compete against pros, semi pros, and advanced amateurs? I wish the judges would consider selecting 3-5 top winners from the pro/semi pro category and another 3-5 top winners from the newbie/hobbyist category. That way at least the newbies might have more of a chance.
 

Marcel

Happily retired
Staff member
Super Mod
What I find a little disconcerting is how can newbies expect to compete against pros, semi pros, and advanced amateurs? I wish the judges would consider selecting 3-5 top winners from the pro/semi pro category and another 3-5 top winners from the newbie/hobbyist category. That way at least the newbies might have more of a chance.

Maybe what you should all consider is this used to be a challenge and we did change the title to Assignment. All participants are winners as this is not a competition and no prizes are given. All can learn by participating and seeing what others do.

Maybe we should just forget the judging and the selection and just suggest a theme every month and then let people discuss the different entries. I know I'd love this because the selection and posting of the selected shot represent at least an hour and a half for me.

I don't own this forum and members should ask and decide which format they would like these themes be handled by us. I'm more than open to suggestions, but I don't want people take this as a competition. It should only be a learning experience.
 

Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
What I find a little disconcerting is how can newbies expect to compete against pros, semi pros, and advanced amateurs? I wish the judges would consider selecting 3-5 top winners from the pro/semi pro category and another 3-5 top winners from the newbie/hobbyist category. That way at least the newbies might have more of a chance.
I'll go on record as saying I don't really care for how the Monthly Challenges are done on all points, either. I also think you bring up a valid point about "noobs" competing against Professionals, but the issue of selecting winners from different groups complicates things because judges would have to select 25 different winners (5 winners from the 5 categories if we keep to the current system) which massively increases the workload... Unless you meant one winner being selected from each of the five catagories... Either way, I wouldn't care but what does confuse me is when, exactly, does one transition from "Hobbyist" to "Student" or "Semi-pro"? What do these terms even mean? *confused look*

Further... What prevents a true professional from calling themselves a noob to better their chances at winning? Sad, I know, that someone would do that, but you know there would be some who would... And no, I'm not really expecting answers to these questions, of course, I'm more just thinking out loud.

My over-arching point here is that I too think the challenges could, and probably *should*, be handled differently but I don't want push my own agenda on the concept. I'm with Marcel in thinking the community should decide what they want the Monthly Challenge to look like and determine the specifics of the decision making process.

...
 

Dave_W

The Dude
I agree, maybe the assignment should simply be that, an assignment that members all contribute to. This would also allow members to post within the assignment and discuss the various entries. It would also allow contributors to discuss how they made their images. Therefore, I vote we removing the assignment from being a moderator judged contest and letting the community do the judging.
 

Scott Murray

Senior Member
My thinking is that this is an assignment, its not a competition and I do not think it was ever meant to be. We are all here for one reason and that is to learn different ways of photography and get better at what we do. The assignments are here to get us out of our comfort zone and forces us to try different things.

I do agree that it would be nice to get feedback as what makes a photo better than another but again that is very subjective and each person has different tastes.

What I think should or could happen is this, one photo is chosen out of the entire selection and a reason is given why. Then the winner needs to explain how they took the photo and what thoughts were going through their mind as they took it. I think this would make the assignment better and would also allow those that have never done a style of photography to learn from someone who is maybe more experienced or has a knack at it and never knew.

Just my 2 cents
 

WhiteLight

Senior Member
I agree, maybe the assignment should simply be that, an assignment that members all contribute to. This would also allow members to post within the assignment and discuss the various entries. It would also allow contributors to discuss how they made their images. Therefore, I vote we removing the assignment from being a moderator judged contest and letting the community do the judging.

^^^ This.
I feel that having the number of likes an entry receives is by no way an accurate measurement.
We all know that folks here are very generous with their likes..
and if you've been on the forum for a while, you develop a friendship with the others & when you see an entry, you are almost certain to 'like' the pic.
this would be the case for an 'average' pic.

at the same time, if there is is a fresh face with an average entry too, the number of likes would be lesser..

i would attribute this is to human nature & not prejudice.

this is what i would suggest -
have the assignment/challenge in a forum where the user names are not visible.
people just upload images anonymously without any watermarks or indication on who the uploader is.
then have a voting system where it can just be the number of likes or something more complex if needed.

the discussions can be done after the results, where the participants can talk about the image, how they worked on it & things like that..

not sure of the feasibility of this, just my thoughts
 

hark

Administrator
Staff member
Super Mod
Contributor
Maybe what you should all consider is this used to be a challenge and we did change the title to Assignment. All participants are winners as this is not a competition and no prizes are given. All can learn by participating and seeing what others do.

Maybe we should just forget the judging and the selection and just suggest a theme every month and then let people discuss the different entries. I know I'd love this because the selection and posting of the selected shot represent at least an hour and a half for me.

I don't own this forum and members should ask and decide which format they would like these themes be handled by us. I'm more than open to suggestions, but I don't want people take this as a competition. It should only be a learning experience.

I did not realize this used to be a challenge but was changed to an assignment. Thanks for your comments, Marcel, as it clarifies the intentions much better than I understood it! Your honesty and candor is greatly appreciated...and valued! :)

I'll go on record as saying I don't really care for how the Monthly Challenges are done on all points, either. I also think you bring up a valid point about "noobs" competing against Professionals, but the issue of selecting winners from different groups complicates things because judges would have to select 25 different winners (5 winners from the 5 categories if we keep to the current system) which massively increases the workload... Unless you meant one winner being selected from each of the five catagories... Either way, I wouldn't care but what does confuse me is when, exactly, does one transition from "Hobbyist" to "Student" or "Semi-pro"? What do these terms even mean? *confused look*

Further... What prevents a true professional from calling themselves a noob to better their chances at winning? Sad, I know, that someone would do that, but you know there would be some who would... And no, I'm not really expecting answers to these questions, of course, I'm more just thinking out loud.

My over-arching point here is that I too think the challenges could, and probably *should*, be handled differently but I don't want push my own agenda on the concept. I'm with Marcel in thinking the community should decide what they want the Monthly Challenge to look like and determine the specifics of the decision making process.

...

Thanks Fish! Always appreciate your input! :)

And to all the judges, I appreciate the time you spend on these monthly assignments as I am one who looks forward to these each month even if I don't always participate! ;) Again...thanks for clarifying what I didn't know! :cool:
 

Marcel

Happily retired
Staff member
Super Mod
OK, let's say we try something new for last month's Assignment "FLOWERS".

I just noticed that even if the thread is closed, people can still input their "likes".

So what if we would give all members the possibility to get on that forum, look at all submissions and cast as many "likes" as they wish. Since anyone can only put 1 "like" per post, I would wait, let's say a full week, and then count the "likes". The pictures that get the most likes would be selected.

So, ready, GO! You've got until May 6th to input your choices!
 

mikew_RIP

Senior Member
OK, let's say we try something new for last month's Assignment "FLOWERS".

I just noticed that even if the thread is closed, people can still input their "likes".

So what if we would give all members the possibility to get on that forum, look at all submissions and cast as many "likes" as they wish. Since anyone can only put 1 "like" per post, I would wait, let's say a full week, and then count the "likes". The pictures that get the most likes would be selected.

So, ready, GO! You've got until May 6th to input your choices!

Great idea just lets hope enough members pick up on this post to get a true indication of if it works.
 

gqtuazon

Gear Head
OK, let's say we try something new for last month's Assignment "FLOWERS".

I just noticed that even if the thread is closed, people can still input their "likes".

So what if we would give all members the possibility to get on that forum, look at all submissions and cast as many "likes" as they wish. Since anyone can only put 1 "like" per post, I would wait, let's say a full week, and then count the "likes". The pictures that get the most likes would be selected.

So, ready, GO! You've got until May 6th to input your choices!

This just made my job a lot easier. :)
 
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