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  1. #41
    Senior Member
    theregsy's Avatar

    Re: Need a camera and fully confused

    Quote Originally Posted by spb_stan View Post
    The D700 was a good camera but the features suggested are not the features you need. ALL newer Nikons have higher resolution sensors, have replacement parts available, and are easier to repair if needed. The suggestion you did not need flash for fashion seems strange.,...you need the full article of clothing in focus and well lit, which means augmented light and stopped down apertures, just the opposite of what he suggested as buying criteria. The D700 is a well made camera but is 12mpx and every camera in the Nikon since the D7000 has at least 16mpx resolution, all the cameras expect for the dedicated sports cameras (D4, D5) have at least 24mpx resolution since 5-6 years ago, even the entry level D3300.
    Shooting models with enough depth of field for a catalog means added lighting even in sunny outdoor scenes....especially outdoor scenes.
    You have some specific needs for catalog use that are fulfilled by a wide range of cameras and a lot of features separating the beginner from the advanced enthusiast cameras that are not really important in what you will be shooting. You do not need super fast tracking auto focusing, and you do not need very high sensitivity in low light, and you do not need fast frame rates so those are primarily benefits of higher end cameras that cost more and are more complex. What you need is satisfied by every modern Nikon made: Good resolution and good color accuracy in good light.
    Don't need flash if you have a great sensor as the D700 has, works flawlessly in lower light, bright colour and good detail. Also why is pixel peeping such an issue, if it wasn't for web publishing then I would say buy a D810 which will knock just about any other camera into the weeds, except maybe the 850 but do you need 36mp images for the web certainly not. I don't understand why you think the D700 is such a bad idea? but each to their own I have both a D700 and a D3 they are brilliant cameras and always will be, a camera doesn't suddenly stop taking good images because there is a new model out.But each to their own, I have a D800 as well and you know what in posting web sized images from any of my bodies you won't see any difference, in some situations the 700 will out shoot the 800, so there you go. You will never persuade me that the D700 isn't one of the finest all round cameras ever built.


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    Last edited by theregsy; 09-02-2017 at 12:37 PM. Reason: spelling :(
    Thanks/Like jay_dean Thanks/liked this post
     
    THE man in black. Facebook Photos page The Regsy
    Also known as Mark Regan
    D2hs, D2X, D3, D700, D800



  2. #42
    Senior Member
    spb_stan's Avatar

    Re: Need a camera and fully confused

    Don't need flash? Flash/strobes are not used for lack of light as much as to improve the quality light that is used on every commercial shoot, every catalog, every outdoor shoot. Look at any catalog, any magazine or even web site for a commercial site and augmented light was used. Why? Because that is the only way to control the results for the intended purpose and assure standards are met such as light color temperature consistency between shots on different days. Waiting for conditions for a grab shot does not fit the workflow of a busy catalog shoot.
    The D700 sensor is good but not in the same league as every other model currently in production. Noise floor, full well capacity, SNR and linearity of the ADCs have improved in all sensors, so now, the sensor and amplifiers of the D5500 mid range camera is better. The D3s was a better version because of updated sensor but the D700 never got an undated version. At the time they were the best available but now mostly sought for nostalgia or for specific applications. The big increase of low light performance improvement of the D3s was the addition of aggressive noise reduction that at high ISO dropped detail starting at 12.8k ISO. Later sensors like the one in the D500 uses scaling from 10k and up, until 1.6meg ISO where both scaling and noise reduction is applied. The electronics advances far faster than camera mechanicals and prices of those advances keep dropping. If the D3400 was released in 2007 it would be the widest DR, best low light, highest resolution digital camera in existence by a wide margin.
    So a used 3 year old camera will deliver a lot of performance that a 8 year camera can't top, regardless of original price.For example the popular D7100 that sells for $350 used with a 18-105 lens, has twice the resolution as a Crop camera than the Full Frame D700 and 3 times the Dynamic range at the 100 ISO the studio shooting will be done.
    The advantage of having a camera that can be repaired, as newer models are, is an added benefit. If it breaks, Nikon does not stock many parts for D700, if any and what few might be available will be very expensive. Looking at the part catalog, most parts are NLA

  3. #43
    Junior Member

    Re: Need a camera and fully confused

    One thing right or wrong I feel I should buy a camera that is more than I may need to start so that I can grow into it. And the pictures won't only be for the website. They will also go in magazines and on the odd poster. That was why I was thinking of the 750, it's not too expensive and seems to be good enough and new enough for me to keep for a good few years.
    Again thanks for the info to all of you given lots to look into.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  4. #44
    Senior Member
    theregsy's Avatar

    Re: Need a camera and fully confused

    Quote Originally Posted by spb_stan View Post
    Don't need flash? Flash/strobes are not used for lack of light as much as to improve the quality light that is used on every commercial shoot, every catalog, every outdoor shoot. Look at any catalog, any magazine or even web site for a commercial site and augmented light was used. Why? Because that is the only way to control the results for the intended purpose and assure standards are met such as light color temperature consistency between shots on different days. Waiting for conditions for a grab shot does not fit the workflow of a busy catalog shoot.
    The D700 sensor is good but not in the same league as every other model currently in production. Noise floor, full well capacity, SNR and linearity of the ADCs have improved in all sensors, so now, the sensor and amplifiers of the D5500 mid range camera is better. The D3s was a better version because of updated sensor but the D700 never got an undated version. At the time they were the best available but now mostly sought for nostalgia or for specific applications. The big increase of low light performance improvement of the D3s was the addition of aggressive noise reduction that at high ISO dropped detail starting at 12.8k ISO. Later sensors like the one in the D500 uses scaling from 10k and up, until 1.6meg ISO where both scaling and noise reduction is applied. The electronics advances far faster than camera mechanicals and prices of those advances keep dropping. If the D3400 was released in 2007 it would be the widest DR, best low light, highest resolution digital camera in existence by a wide margin.
    So a used 3 year old camera will deliver a lot of performance that a 8 year camera can't top, regardless of original price.For example the popular D7100 that sells for $350 used with a 18-105 lens, has twice the resolution as a Crop camera than the Full Frame D700 and 3 times the Dynamic range at the 100 ISO the studio shooting will be done.
    The advantage of having a camera that can be repaired, as newer models are, is an added benefit. If it breaks, Nikon does not stock many parts for D700, if any and what few might be available will be very expensive. Looking at the part catalog, most parts are NLA

    Yep don't need a flash, if you know what you are doing you don't need a flash, I know a lot of professionals that don't, i shoot in situations where you can't. But we will agree to disagree and I will state again that the D700 is a great camera, was when it came out no worse now, yes there are better cameras out there now but that doesn't make it worse and you wouldn't get me near a crop sensor for anything every again.

    You also keep mentioning spares and repairs, I'll give you the full list of cameras I have owned Fuji S2 pro, and currently own D2HS, D2X, D3, D700, D800 and F80, despite most of these being bought used and have since been very heavily used not on has any signs of anything that may need repairing except the D3 that has loose rubber grips, so its not an issue really. But like I say each to their own.
    Disagree singlerosa disagreed
     
    THE man in black. Facebook Photos page The Regsy
    Also known as Mark Regan
    D2hs, D2X, D3, D700, D800

  5. #45
    Senior Member
    theregsy's Avatar

    Re: Need a camera and fully confused

    Quote Originally Posted by sampochin View Post
    One thing right or wrong I feel I should buy a camera that is more than I may need to start so that I can grow into it. And the pictures won't only be for the website. They will also go in magazines and on the odd poster. That was why I was thinking of the 750, it's not too expensive and seems to be good enough and new enough for me to keep for a good few years.
    Again thanks for the info to all of you given lots to look into.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I think the 750 is a great choice, very good piece of equipment.
    THE man in black. Facebook Photos page The Regsy
    Also known as Mark Regan
    D2hs, D2X, D3, D700, D800

  6. #46
    Senior Member
    singlerosa's Avatar

    Re: Need a camera and fully confused

    Quote Originally Posted by theregsy View Post
    Yep don't need a flash, if you know what you are doing you don't need a flash, I know a lot of professionals that don't, i shoot in situations where you can't. .....
    If all you shoot is live music and motorsports, you're partially right. I've been shooting for 40 years and always carry at least one speed light. I think I know what I'm doing.
    Thanks/Like jay_dean Thanks/liked this post
     

    Jim Singler - D750 & D7200; 14-24 2.8, 24-70 2.8, 24-120 VRII, 70-200 2.8 VRII, 70-300 VR, 200-500 VR, 50 1.4D, 85 1.8G, Tokina 100 2.8; 3 SB-800s, SB-500


  7. #47
    Senior Member
    spb_stan's Avatar

    Re: Need a camera and fully confused

    Quote Originally Posted by theregsy View Post
    Yep don't need a flash, if you know what you are doing you don't need a flash, I know a lot of professionals that don't, i shoot in situations where you can't. But we will agree to disagree and I will state again that the D700 is a great camera, was when it came out no worse now, yes there are better cameras out there now but that doesn't make it worse and you wouldn't get me near a crop sensor for anything every again.

    You also keep mentioning spares and repairs, I'll give you the full list of cameras I have owned Fuji S2 pro, and currently own D2HS, D2X, D3, D700, D800 and F80, despite most of these being bought used and have since been very heavily used not on has any signs of anything that may need repairing except the D3 that has loose rubber grips, so its not an issue really. But like I say each to their own.

    I have never seen a indoor or out door catalog shoot that did not involve augmented light. It has nothing to do with being incompetent for needing it, it is about getting what the art director expects. Hundreds of final images including in the catalog will have a set style so there is consistency between catalog items. Please forward the contact information for the pro commercial photographers you know who do not use augmented light for catalog....maybe they have some secret the thousands of fashion shooters don't know about. Telling the OP he does not need lighting for his task has the danger that he might believe you and waste his whole project schedule and money.


    I have also never seen a cover shot for a major publication done without augmented light. Are you forgetting what the OP's requirements are, what is trying to do? With all natural like no two images will have the same lighting let alone hundreds of catalog items. I was involved with dozens of record album cover shoots for major label releases and even those with the plan to appear natural, outdoors, were anything but all natural.
    No question the D700 was a fine camera, but why spend more and get less solid files? It does not make sense, everything since that era has eclipsed the image quality of the D700 in DR, color depth, color fidelity, shadow recovery, resolution, data transfer rates, improvements in tethering(used in most commercial studio photography) and more. My suggestion for crop is based on the needs of the task plus budget of $2000. All quality Fx lenses are going to kill that budget.


    Yes, repairability is an important deciding point for any business that will depend on a tool and physical asset. Why argue points that are just common sense and standard practice for a business? If you have had no repair issues, that is good for you, but it is not the norm, you have been lucky.

    It appears you want to argue about your preferences and not the OP's needs, budget and task solution. By using standard industry practice, of using good light, both the high cost of a top camera and top lenses is avoided. Great light trumps cameras and lenses for impact on the final result. And $200 in lighting beats the heck out of $2000 for a good fx lens, which with poor light would have to be used wide open, the exact opposite need of a catalog session where all details have to be within the depth of field, and stopped down to at least 5.6 but more likely f/8. These are not portrait sessions where shallow DOF is desired, in this case shooting 1.4 or 2.8 will result in parts of the clothing to be out of focus.
    The only reason I am responding is to help prevent the OP who had a sincere question, from being sidetracked into spending more money and not getting the results he needs, for no reason. No one is suggesting you need to use lighting or use budget saving equipment so why try to derail him?
    Thanks/Like singlerosa, sampochin Thanks/liked this post
     

  8. #48
    Senior Member

    Re: Need a camera and fully confused

    Hello and welcome,

    I would look at a D800 and save towards more glass

  9. #49
    Senior Member
    singlerosa's Avatar

    Re: Need a camera and fully confused

    I added the Nikon 24-120 f/4 to my kit earlier this year and find it to be a good performer, if you don't want to go the 24-70 route. There are a lot of used and refurbed copies out there (at least in the US).
    Thanks/Like jay_dean Thanks/liked this post
     

    Jim Singler - D750 & D7200; 14-24 2.8, 24-70 2.8, 24-120 VRII, 70-200 2.8 VRII, 70-300 VR, 200-500 VR, 50 1.4D, 85 1.8G, Tokina 100 2.8; 3 SB-800s, SB-500


  10. #50
    Senior Member
    jay_dean's Avatar

    Re: Need a camera and fully confused

    Quote Originally Posted by singlerosa View Post
    I added the Nikon 24-120 f/4 to my kit earlier this year and find it to be a good performer, if you don't want to go the 24-70 route. There are a lot of used and refurbed copies out there (at least in the US).
    Agreed. The prices of these are low mainly due to them flooding the market as they were packaged as a kit lens, and many sold them off. The best Nikon lens for the price that it can be bought imo, to get a better Nikon zoom in this kind of focal you'll have to pay a lot more
    Thanks/Like singlerosa Thanks/liked this post
     

    .............'...Brighten My Northern Sky'
    ......................





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