Photography is not a crime

Bill16

Senior Member
Holy crap that guy has guts for sure! Pissing off cops is at the top of my list of things not to do even if I'm in the right. In Oregon it is a requirement to have valid I'd available at all times when outside your home, or they can take you in for finger printing, and likely interfering with an officer in the line of duty. Also admitting he drove and has no license to show them would be a good way to be pulled over the moment you started your car in Oregon.

On the other hand the Oregon cops might not give a shit if you videoed them from a distance. Wow what a video! I'm sure glad it wasn't me!!! Lol :D
 

Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
I salute his chutzpah. The main thing he did right, in my opinion, was keep his s--t together. He stayed calm and didn't escalate things (even when he was (allegedly) grabbed by the cop) which would have *absolutely* sunk his proverbial battleship. I've had run ins with cops over civil matters unrelated to photography and in my experience, the less you say the better. I won't escalate, but I won't be bullied either and cops don't seem to like it when citizens know their rights and, more importantly, aren't afraid to assert them.

...
 

Rick M

Senior Member
You can be right and still lose. You gotta be careful with this kinda stuff and I think the guy with the camera was pretty stupid. I wouldn't depend on other cops to be "your" witness. I'm sure 99% of police officers are great, but their is a brotherhood that can run deeper than your rights.
 

Eyelight

Senior Member
I try to look at the big picture.

While the alleged photographer may have been within his rights, part of the world being a better place is people getting along and generally being part of the whole process. The fact that he brushed off the initial query, kept the video rolling and refused to answer additional questions tells me his entire purpose was to draw a line and dare someone to cross it. There are many places he would have spent several hours if not overnight clearing up his lack of appreciation for freedom.

The last text about tax dollars at work. I think the young man was the cause of a number of lost dollars that belonged to his fellow citizens.

I've had "run ins with the law" where the officer figured out mid conversation that he was wrong and all ended well (he's been a good friend since). I'm happy the deputies were curious and investigative and made sure the guy was just a harmless fellow. I'm tickled pink to wait a bit at the airport, take my shoes off, turn on my devices, etc. for the people whose job is to keep my family safe. They are amongst my heroes.
 

Browncoat

Senior Member
This is a pretty clear cut case of a cop with a God Complex, evidenced by his first instinct to grab this guy's camera and/or wrist. The kid could've raised a stink about the whole incident and been able to press charges in most states just based on the contents of the video. Kudos to him for sticking to his guns and exercising his rights. The more "bad cop" spoke, the more he proved that he was used to barking orders as opposed to knowing the law.
 

Rick M

Senior Member
Sometimes you have to use your judgement even when you are right. He's on a street corner at night in a small town pissing off all the local cops with no other witnesses around. He is of course in his rights, but I would have left sooner, not worth my camera getting "accidentally" smashed or worse. Save righteousness for when you are in a safe position. I agree with the God complex and have seen it before in action along with the brotherhood, not a good combo.
 

Phillydog1958

Senior Member
Wow! I used to drive through Pampa, TX to visit several clients just outside of Amarillo. Pampa is a small town just, an hour NE of Amarillo. I've always been comfortable visiting the Texas Panhandle, but I'd never do that. He was within his rights, but there are some cops out there who would've taken him down -- Camera and all. He could've been hurt, or worse. I do applaud his passion for what's right.
 
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Krs_2007

Senior Member
I maybe wrong but if you have an identification issued by the state then the law states you have to show it upon request. Honestly this guy brought it on himself and should have just shown his id. If you choose not to then you are being suspicious, my opinion and experience.

if he would have just shown his id this whole thing would have never gone this far. Why bring on the suspicion yourself, I don't understand that.

The officer was wrong in grabbing the camera, I will admit that.

I also wonder what in the heck was he going to do with the video anyway, really video of traffic stops, come on now.


i come from a family of law enforcement and know a ton of officers, they are people too and protecting our lives for very little pay. This guy was really trying to be the next YouTube sensation.
 

Browncoat

Senior Member
I maybe wrong but if you have an identification issued by the state then the law states you have to show it upon request. Honestly this guy brought it on himself and should have just shown his id. If you choose not to then you are being suspicious, my opinion and experience.

This is only a law in some states. Note that Texas (where this video took place) does NOT have this law.

Stop and identify statutes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - clears up a lot about this entire issue.
 
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Eyelight

Senior Member
I'm not siding with any side, but if you, yes you, were doing your job, whatever your job was and somebody you did not know and had never seen before was standing across the street videoing your every action, wouldn't you want to know what he was doing. Add to it that it is after dark and not when you see the average person video taping.

Okay, now that you want to know, put a badge on, the purpose of which is to represent every person's safety and well being in the community that you serve. Are you as a police officer, responsible for public safety, going to ignore the odd behavior of the guy with the video camera that you do not know. They were doing their job. The police had every right to inquire. Maybe they need a little PR training, but the circumstances warranted the inquiry. Go to any small town and do the same thing at night under similar circumstances and see if you don't get a similar or more aggressive response. The reason there was a handful of officers present is they did not know what they were dealing with and were not going to know until they investigated. Took them more time than was necessary because there was no cooperation on the part of the alleged "citizen" (we have no proof he was who he claimed to be).

Being within your rights does not make you right.
 
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Browncoat

Senior Member
I'm not siding with any side, but if you, yes you, were doing your job, whatever your job was and somebody you did not know and had never seen before was standing across the street videoing your every action, wouldn't you want to know what he was doing. Add to it that it is after dark and not when you see the average person video taping.

Okay, now that you want to know, put a badge on, the purpose of which is to represent every person's safety and well being in the community that you serve. Are you as a police officer, responsible for public safety, going to ignore the odd behavior of the guy with the video camera thay you do not know. They were doing their job. The police had every right to inquire. Maybe they need a little PR training, but the circumstances warranted the inquiry. Go to any small town and do the same thing at night under similar circumstances and see if you don't get a similar or more aggressive response. The reason there was a handful of officers present is they did not know what they were dealing with and were not going to know until they investigated. Took them more time than was necessary because there was no cooperation on the part of the alleged "citizen" (we have no proof he was who he claimed to be).

Being within your rights does not make you right.

That's some pretty false logic.

You referenced "odd behavior" on a public sidewalk. Forget about the camera. Instead, what if this guy:
  • was wearing a t-shirt with flashing neon lights
  • was reciting the Emancipation Proclamation to an imaginary audience
  • was kissing another man
  • was reading out of the Bible

These could all be classified as behaviors that are out of the norm. Does that give the police the right to question his presence for being there? No. They have no more authority or duty to do that than to show up knocking at my door right now at 1:32am and ask me what I'm doing just because they damn well feel like it.

They were not doing their job, they were outside the parameters of their job.
 

Eyelight

Senior Member
That's some pretty false logic..

Has nothing to do with logic. Simply observation based on 11 minutes of edited video that presents one side of a story mixed with a lifetime of knowing and watching people.

The young man was initially questioned because he had a camera, but the second questioning was a result of his initial lack of cooperation. Why would a citizen of the community refuse to divulge where he lived. Makes no sense to me and obviously made no sense to the police. They returned and satisfied their concerns. The police pushed the envelope as they should and backed off when they realized there was no threat. The alleged photographer made it out to be more than it was.

Look at this video again from the standpoint that this guy is an unknown, possible threat and these policemen are protecting you and your children while you sleep.

BTW, your other examples of odd behaviors hold no comparison to someone video taping what could be considered targets. You and I obviously live in different worlds. But that's okay. I'm still a Browncoat fan. I have the series and the movie.:)
 
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