Nikon D850 Noise

Chaz2018

New member
Hello,
I just got my D850.after my first shoot I see a lot of noise in all my images.I did a test comparing with my D800 and it is giving much better results in terms of noise and colours as compared to D850.Tests were done at different ISO with same settings and lens combination.What could be the problem if anyone can help please.Attaching a file for reference
Thank you in advance
Charles
 

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  • NIKON.jpg
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Chaz2018

New member
Thank you Kevin.I have used different settings and get same result.Its just not the noise but colours are more dull too(tested only with Auto0 and Auto1 WB).RAW with lossless compresed
 

pforsell

Senior Member
Hello,
I just got my D850.after my first shoot I see a lot of noise in all my images.I did a test comparing with my D800 and it is giving much better results in terms of noise and colours as compared to D850.Tests were done at different ISO with same settings and lens combination.What could be the problem if anyone can help please.Attaching a file for reference
Thank you in advance
Charles

I'm sure the following "recipe" is obvious to you, but I post it anyway as someone else might find it useful.

I don't know which raw developer you are using, but to have a level playing field please re-verify the camera settings in both cameras. Make sure that at least Active D-Lighting is off, and in-camera noise reduction is off, and vignetting correction is off. All of these affect image lightness and some affect the exposure itself. Some raw developers react to these metadata tags differently. Also set the same manual white balance.

Exposure (= f-number and shutter speed) determine the amount of light entering the camera. When testing for noise, you must do it using the same exposure, since the biggest source of noise is the light itself, aka photon shot noise. Set both cameras manually to for example 1/250 sec and f/8 and shoot the test pictures. Your samples show at least one, maybe two stop difference in the image lightness, which may be caused by very different exposures. Lower exposure = less light = more noise. ISO setting does not cause or create noise, usually just the opposite. It is the lack of light that is the main contributor to image noise.

For colors from raw, please remember that what you are seeing is the colors produced by your raw developer software camera profile. If the profile is not to your liking, you can tweak it until you're satisfied. There is no such thing as "raw color" until the raw file has been demosaicked, white balanced, gamma corrected and profiled. Make sure you use appropriate settings for all of the stages and do not - I repeat - do not rely on the raw developer software's default settings done by some random programmer who has no idea what you like to shoot and how you like your colors.

One last thing for a fair comparison is to compare the final images at the same size. Preferably a print. Print both samples for example on 16x24 inch glossy paper, and compare the end result. Or if you want to save some ink and paper, resample both images to the same size on screen, either upsampling the smaller to the same size as the bigger image, or downsampling the bigger to the same size as the smaller image, or the best scenario is to resample both to the same common size, for example 9000x6000 pixels (54 Mpix) and compare those.
 
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Chaz2018

New member
Thank you for detailed instructions.I am attaching more files with exif data.opened in Photoshop camera raw at 100% zoom.same lens combination on tripod.same settings.And I can confirm Noise reduction is offD8001600.jpgD8501600.jpg
 

Marcel

Happily retired
Staff member
Super Mod
In my opinion, 1/30s with a 200mm lens is asking for trouble. Even with a tripod unless you used delay.

Second, your camera profile is set to Adobe standard... start by changing this to Nikon standard and you might see a huge improvement.

Third, your subject is printed matter... which, by definition, is never very sharp.

I'd be extremely surprised that the D850 doesn't outperform the D800 in real life situation, once you set lightroom to meet your taste.

Good luck.
 

Chaz2018

New member
Thank you Marcel.I use affinity photo.this is just trial version of photoshop cc as currently AP does not support d850.In camera color space is set to adobe RGB
 

spb_stan

Senior Member
100% is not the same magnification factor. The two cameras have almost the same noise performance but one image that is at a higher magnification should appear noisier. Exposure and noise are directly related and the first images were not exposed the same. Settings might be the same but exposure is not expected to be identical. All the histograms show low exposure but the algorithms are a bit different.
But for 100% crops, they both are better than I would expect for any camera underexposed and pixel peeping. Can you see noise in a print or at in normal full image display on a monitor? I would really doubt anyone could see any when viewed as intended. Pixel peeping is death to photos and destroys any message an image has to convey. It is a bad habit to get into unless you know it is not a representation of the photo. What color are supposed to be reproduced? I doubt the color of the text is actually grey to your eyes so you know right away exposure and WB are misadjusted. Without proper exposure, you can't have WB correct for the scene.
 

Photowyzard

Senior Member
I am going to jump out on a limb here and say, user error. I have both the D800 and the D850. Both amazing cameras, the D850 SMOKES... I repeat, SMOKES the D800 and yet, both produce outstanding images.

Noise? Are you printing at 100%?

This image is cropped at 100%, ISO 200


Noise-Test_1.jpg

This image is cropped at 30% or close to it.
1200px_Mourning-Dove.jpg

I don't see Noise as an issue and the colors are perfect, in challenging light.

Under the right conditions, noise is not something I would say is a problem, much less color.

MARGO.jpg
 
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D610

Senior Member
Hi dear friends :)
Maybe you can help me also in the same topic . Only with Nikon D610 (bought new less then a year and still in warranty) I just was shooting my daughter birthday party and I was very disappointed from the iso noise even in iso 400 . Please see attached pictures with few different iso setting. and tell me if you think it's a sensor issue. Pictures taken in afternoon while the light was good golden hour and some at night with flash. I will also attache a picture with flash (DSC3871).
The reason I suspect something wrong because I see many you tube and images review which using the same iso are getting much better quality.
Using Nikon lens 24-120 f4 VR
Hope you can find time to answer me.
Many thanks!
227f051fbd20d83ca0660aa593896d0d.jpg
8d739a7fa179fc09b0a6c17c047464a5.jpg
ad4e6b66b7926f251edfa873ac647306.jpg
68896fdf39508c6017063a143c969d97.jpg
8537373d927a24639d32d8320b132bf3.jpg


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Blade Canyon

Senior Member
D610, none of the photos you posted are in sharp focus, so it's hard to tell if it's a noise issue alone. On the other hand, the photos may have been perfectly sharp when viewed normally but you may have zoomed in beyond the normal viewing range, which would also make noise more pronounced on viewing at such an extreme zoom. Three of the photos look underexposed which would definitely introduce noise.

Can you post the entire photos without the zoom in?
 

Marcel

Happily retired
Staff member
Super Mod
Hi dear friends :)
Maybe you can help me also in the same topic . Only with Nikon D610 (bought new less then a year and still in warranty) I just was shooting my daughter birthday party and I was very disappointed from the iso noise even in iso 400 . Please see attached pictures with few different iso setting. and tell me if you think it's a sensor issue. Pictures taken in afternoon while the light was good golden hour and some at night with flash. I will also attache a picture with flash (DSC3871).
The reason I suspect something wrong because I see many you tube and images review which using the same iso are getting much better quality.
Using Nikon lens 24-120 f4 VR
Hope you can find time to answer me.
Many thank

A lot of your shots are either out of focus or have motion blur. I noticed that your shutter speeds were around 1/100 and 1/50 s... With people that are not standing still (and even then) these shutter speeds are too slow to make sharp images.
 

D610

Senior Member
D610, none of the photos you posted are in sharp focus, so it's hard to tell if it's a noise issue alone. On the other hand, the photos may have been perfectly sharp when viewed normally but you may have zoomed in beyond the normal viewing range, which would also make noise more pronounced on viewing at such an extreme zoom. Three of the photos look underexposed which would definitely introduce noise.

Can you post the entire photos without the zoom in?
Dear Blade , thank you for your answer :)
I didn't notice out of the camera that the pictures wasn't sharp. i didn't know that un-sharped or underexposed images can reduce grain.
i did checked the pictures in again and you are right they are not sharp enough.
here are 3 different pictures due to the fact i don't want to upload full images of the persons.
can you tell if there is an issue with the sensor in high ISO?
Candy table is shoot at 1/640 at f/4 ISO 400 focused on the middle candy vase.
The cake pictures at 1/30 f4 ISO 2000
7e2995b1c204eb1e208127b91aaa902d.jpg
ec0b45af2d526fe64ead187bc2f862f3.jpg
07ec766fb5b1d34f46d929c73939ee30.jpg


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Blade Canyon

Senior Member
Those photos look perfectly fine to me, but it's hard to believe that a bright sunny shot at 1/30th sec. plus f4 needed ISO 2000? Those exposure values don't make sense if it really was bright and sunny.

Same question I asked the OP: is there a filter on the lens?

That candy table shot has me craving sugar now!
 

D610

Senior Member
Those photos look perfectly fine to me, but it's hard to believe that a bright sunny shot at 1/30th sec. plus f4 needed ISO 2000? Those exposure values don't make sense if it really was bright and sunny.

Same question I asked the OP: is there a filter on the lens?

That candy table shot has me craving sugar now!

Thanks for prompt answer:)
In fact the cake pictures was taken at night :) with the place ambient light without flash.
The candy table was taken at the afternoon (golden hour)
No filter on lens

And for the sugar craving I invite you to Israel to take some candy :)

So I understand that if pictures are not sharp they will introduce noise if you zoom in post -right? And also underexposed pictures. Yes? Although in light room it was seem exposed okay also on the camera display. But I get the point.

Many thanks blade!

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pforsell

Senior Member
So I understand that if pictures are not sharp they will introduce noise if you zoom in post -right? And also underexposed pictures. Yes? Although in light room it was seem exposed okay also on the camera display. But I get the point.

1. Lower exposure = less light = more noise.
2. Sharpening = increases visibility of noise.
3. Soft or misfocused picture -> aggressive sharpening -> terrible noise.
4. Artificial light (for example tungsten) = more noise. (weak blue channel will be very noisy)
5. Image size reduction = less visible noise.

The images originated in a 46 megapixel camera and are now 0.4 megapixel. It is difficult to give very good feedback on the images you posted, since they are pretty small. The image size reduction has masked and/or hidden any noise that may or may not have been there. You have discarded almost all (99.2%) of the data and one would have to be a clairvoyant to be able to tell what the images were in the beginning.
 

D610

Senior Member
1. Lower exposure = less light = more noise.
2. Sharpening = increases visibility of noise.
3. Soft or misfocused picture -> aggressive sharpening -> terrible noise.
4. Artificial light (for example tungsten) = more noise. (weak blue channel will be very noisy)
5. Image size reduction = less visible noise.

The images originated in a 46 megapixel camera and are now 0.4 megapixel. It is difficult to give very good feedback on the images you posted, since they are pretty small. The image size reduction has masked and/or hidden any noise that may or may not have been there. You have discarded almost all (99.2%) of the data and one would have to be a clairvoyant to be able to tell what the images were in the beginning.
Thanks for the big help!
Here is a link to my original files also raw
The application must have decreased the files size.
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BzclY5eDJgj8Y05UTEE1U3NzWHM

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