Nikon D850: Images constantly under exposed

tahafarooq

New member
Hi Guys,

I just moved from the D7000 to the D850 (a big jump for me). I love the camera and the features, but I have noticed that all the photos I have taken are always under exposed. I have tried different lenses, 24-120 f/4 VR & Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D, but the result is always the same. I have to keep fixing this in Camera Raw, but I would like to fix this in the camera itself. I tried resetting all the settings on the camera, but no luck. Is there something that I should be doing, but I am not??

BR,Taha
 

Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
Hi Guys,

I just moved from the D7000 to the D850 (a big jump for me). I love the camera and the features, but I have noticed that all the photos I have taken are always under exposed. I have tried different lenses, 24-120 f/4 VR & Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D, but the result is always the same. I have to keep fixing this in Camera Raw, but I would like to fix this in the camera itself. I tried resetting all the settings on the camera, but no luck. Is there something that I should be doing, but I am not??

BR,Taha
Well you could try a different metering mode to see if you get exposure more to your liking, you could dial in some Exposure Compensation or you could use the Fine Tune Optimal Exposure option in the Custom Settings Menu. Not sure where to find that setting on the D850 exactly, but on my D750 it's option B6. The last option allows you fine tune all the different metering modes (Matrix, Spot, Center Weighted...) but be aware the Exposure Compensation icon will not indicate this adjustment has been made.
 

Bikerbrent

Senior Member
Welcome aboard. Enjoy the ride.
We look forward to seeing more posts and samples of your work.

Please post some of your photos with EXIF data, and perhaps we can help you.
 
Post one of the photos here as an example so we can have a better idea of what is going on. Give as much detail as you can like metering mode and full EXIF Use the method below to post as it will give us some of the details.

Guidelines to adding a photo to your post.

1. Resize photo to 1000px on the long side.
2. Resolution set to 72ppi (Pixels Per Inch)

These guidelines will be good for viewing on a computer but will not be good for printing. This will help safeguard your copyright.







 

tahafarooq

New member
I was struggling with uploading the images. Thanks Don Kuykendall for the instructions.

Here are the photos. The first two are in Program mode, the last one is in Manual mode and I dialed in the settings myself.

20170915_0797.jpg
EXIF Data:
File20170915_0797.NEF
Date Created9/15/17 6:27
Date Modified9/15/17 6:27
File Size52.2 MB
Image SizeL (8256 x 5504), FX
Date Shot27:47.2
Time Zone and DateUTC+4, DST:OFF
Image QualityLossless Compressed RAW (14-bit)
DeviceNikon D850
Lens50mm f/1.8D
Focal Length50mm
Focus ModeAF-S
AF-Area ModeGroup Area AF
VR
AF Fine TuneON(0)
Aperturef/9
Shutter Speed1/320s
Exposure ModeProgrammed Auto
Exposure Comp.0EV
Exposure Tuning
MeteringMatrix
ISO SensitivityISO 400
Device
White BalanceAuto1, 0, 0 (5710K)
Color SpaceAdobe RGB
High ISO NROFF
Long Exposure NROFF
Active D-LightingNormal
Vignette ControlOFF
Auto Distortion ControlOFF
Picture Control[SD] STANDARD
Base[SD] STANDARD
Quick Adjust0
Sharpening3
Clarity1
Contrast0
Brightness0
Saturation0
Hue0
Filter Effects-
Toning-
Latitude-
Longitude-
Altitude-
Altitude Reference-
Heading-
UTC-
Map Datum-


20170915_0806.jpg
EXIF Data:
File20170915_0806.NEF
Date Created9/15/17 6:30
Date Modified9/15/17 6:30
File Size49.4 MB
Image SizeL (8256 x 5504), FX
Date Shot30:14.4
Time Zone and DateUTC+4, DST:OFF
Image QualityLossless Compressed RAW (14-bit)
DeviceNikon D850
Lens50mm f/1.8D
Focal Length50mm
Focus ModeAF-S
AF-Area ModeAuto
VR
AF Fine TuneON(0)
Aperturef/1.8
Shutter Speed1/8000s
Exposure ModeProgrammed Auto*
Exposure Comp.0EV
Exposure Tuning
MeteringMatrix
ISO SensitivityISO 250
Device
White BalanceAuto1, 0, 0 (5680K)
Color SpaceAdobe RGB
High ISO NROFF
Long Exposure NROFF
Active D-LightingNormal
Vignette ControlOFF
Auto Distortion ControlOFF
Picture Control[SD] STANDARD
Base[SD] STANDARD
Quick Adjust0
Sharpening3
Clarity1
Contrast0
Brightness0
Saturation0
Hue0
Filter Effects-
Toning-
Latitude-
Longitude-
Altitude-
Altitude Reference-
Heading-
UTC-
Map Datum-

20170915_0821.jpg
EXIF Data
File20170915_0821.NEF
Date Created9/15/17 6:37
Date Modified9/15/17 6:37
File Size52.1 MB
Image SizeL (8256 x 5504), FX
Date Shot37:47.7
Time Zone and DateUTC+4, DST:OFF
Image QualityLossless Compressed RAW (14-bit)
DeviceNikon D850
Lens50mm f/1.8D
Focal Length50mm
Focus ModeManual
AF-Area ModeSingle
VR
AF Fine TuneON(0)
Aperturef/1.8
Shutter Speed1/1000s
Exposure ModeManual
Exposure Comp.0EV
Exposure Tuning
MeteringMatrix
ISO SensitivityISO 250
Device
White BalanceAuto1, 0, 0 (5480K)
Color SpaceAdobe RGB
High ISO NROFF
Long Exposure NROFF
Active D-LightingNormal
Vignette ControlOFF
Auto Distortion ControlOFF
Picture Control[SD] STANDARD
Base[SD] STANDARD
Quick Adjust0
Sharpening3
Clarity1
Contrast0
Brightness0
Saturation0
Hue0
Filter Effects-
Toning-
Latitude-
Longitude-
Altitude-
Altitude Reference-
Heading-
UTC-
Map Datum-

Any help would be appreciated.

BR/Taha
 

hark

Administrator
Staff member
Super Mod
Contributor
The first 3 have a lot of sky in them so the camera will automatically underexpose (one reason why I switched to center-weighted metering which is a little more accurate although sometimes I still have to override the settings). Be sure to check the +/- button to see if it is set to something other than 0. Doing a camera reset only changes the shooting menu according to Nikon (spoke with their rep when I wanted to do a reset on my D750). The +/- button is on the top of my D750. Not sure where it is located on your D850.
 

tahafarooq

New member
How is that different from 3D Color Matrix metering in D7000? Isn't the matrix metering on D850 newer? I would assume that it would be better at choosing the right exposure setting.

Has anyone else faced the same issue with the D850? Or is it just that I'm new to the full frame shooting experience?
 

Danno

Senior Member
To me it looks like it was a pretty bright day and the metering underexposed the main subject to keep from blowing out the whites in the lighter background. like the sky and sand and such.
 

Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
How is that different from 3D Color Matrix metering in D7000? Isn't the matrix metering on D850 newer? I would assume that it would be better at choosing the right exposure setting.

Has anyone else faced the same issue with the D850? Or is it just that I'm new to the full frame shooting experience?
I've pulled your posted shots into Photoshop and there's nothing wrong with them. The camera's metering is behaving exactly as it should. So that's good! :)

From reading your previous posts it's clear to me you are unclear on precisely how metering works on a DSLR. The camera's meter is designed to give you consistent exposure based on Middle Grey; not necessarily "proper exposure" because only you, as the photographer, can decide what that means. "Proper exposure" is a judgment call, and the meter in your camera does not make judgements; it determines exposure based on Middle Grey. Now, it's true that Matrix Metering attempts to improve on this concept and, a lot of the time, it does a good job at that. However, Matrix Metering is easily confused and when it gets confused it falls back to exposing for Middle Grey. In short, the camera's meter is more like a compass that leads you to the exposure you want and understanding precisely how it does that, is crucial.

Essential Reading: Why Your Camera Loves "Middle Grey" and Why That's Important
 

spb_stan

Senior Member
The scenes shown in the example link you provided are perfect examples of what Paul suggests, the scenes are dark because they properly exposed and the sample of the one appearing brighter might be over exposing based on the meter's goal. By learning what the meter is telling you, you have all the information needed to get the image display your wish. The purpose of the meter is misunderstood by most photographers of modern cameras because when the range of light is wide, the auto exposure modes and our expectations are very close. When there is a smaller range between darkest and lightest, the metering remains consistent, but our expectations are off. The scene IS 18-20% middle grey so it is showing what it is designed to show you.


The camera has a lot of built in biases that are selected based on metering mode and color components based on analysis of real world images in Matrix mode, so its guesses are pretty close to how people expect the scene to look like to them that works well in wide DR scenes or with wide chroma range. The success in guessing your expectations in Matrix mode is pretty good but the middle grey definition of mid point of scene brightness still rules.


The brightest possible scene element that can be captured and the darkest element that can be captured depends on ISO, the widest range is at base ISO and the very smallest range that does not exceed the DR of the camera is at highest ISO so wide DR scene capture is crippled by the current fad to expect very high ISO performance.


Does the camera generate images that look more as expected when there are elements both bright and dark where the middle point between those extremes is brighter? I suspect in scenes with a brighter mid DR point look as you expect.
When a scene is dominated by a level of light, it is going to be captured as middle grey, whatever that dominate level is. Take a photo at the beach on a bright sunny day and you would expect to see it as bright in a photo because of our experience of sunny beaches but the camera has no idea what beach brightness is and only seeks the mid point between darkest and lightest. If EVERYTHING is very bright, the mid point is bright to you, knowing what you are looking at but to the camera that bright mid point is the mid point between deepest black and brightest full well illumination so decreases sensitivity so the mid point is captured as 18% grey. The example to show what middle grey is can be seen with mixing paint. The blackest paint you can find and the brightest white you can find when mixed together in some ratio so that it appears to be a mid point in brightness between that two extremes turns out to be adding 18% of the volume of black to the white paint produces a mid level of illumination. Or adding 82% volume of white paint to the jet black paint produces that same mid point between the extremes of brightest to darkest.
In your example photos the meter says that the brightest part of that scene and the darkest part of that scene are close together in absolute illumination so a dull grey is that that mid point it wants to capture. If there were very bright elements and very dark elements introduced to that scene it would still see middle grey as dull grey but your eye would see the wide DR of the scene and think it was normal.


Shoot a scene that is darker, where the deepest black and the lightest parts of the scene are still dark, the meter thinks the mid point between those two extremes is the mid point to capture as the mid point of the camera's brightest and darkest recording capability, which is a lot brighter than your eye sees it. So it appears over exposed in the capture.. Take a photo of a groom in a wedding where his Tux is the dominant element under the focus point. You look at the monitor and are disappointed, his tux looks dull grey. Next you take a photo of the bride where her very bright white dress is the dominate level under the focus point and the capture is a dull grey, under exposed to your eye. In both of these cases, a wedding photographer would know to get black elements black looking, he has to dial in negative exposure compensation,1.5-2 stops as a starting point. With the bride, be dials in positive exposure compensation. But if he shot them both together in Matrix mode, the mid point between brightest and darkest would be pretty much how you would see it in real life and the dress would look a great deal brighter than the dark tux.
When shooting snow scenes you know from experience, the photos look grey, not bright white, for the very same reason. Dialing in 2 stops of positive exposure compensation results in white snow unless there is a large dark object in the scene, in which case the mid point would be captured more realistically to your expectations. You know it is snow and expect it to look white but the camera has no idea what it is supposed to look like to you. If bright white is the only element in the scene, it is going to be exposed as 18% grey.
Knowing the foregoing puts you into full control of what the scene is captured like as perceived by humans. When you understand what the camera sees and what you see being different, it allows you to predictably compensate to get what you expect. That is when you start becoming a photographer instead of a picture taker.
 

mikew_RIP

Senior Member
A quick thought and i don't know if it been said,the D7000 is biased towards amateur use so will do its best to sort tricky lighting situations for you,the D850 is a full blown pro camera waiting for your instructions,i think it is designed to have more input from the user.
 

tahafarooq

New member
First, I would like to thank everyone for their feedback and input. I sincerely appreciate it. I am also happy to see that my camera is fine (I saved up quite a bit and waited for ages for D850). I also learned that I need to learn a heck of a lot more about photography than I currently do. I have been reading up metering the past few days, so I will eventually get there.
I managed to go out to the same location (with the exact same lens) and approximately the same time window to click a few more shots of different things in area with Matrix and Center-Weighted metering. I have uploaded the photos here: https://flic.kr/s/aHsm4BGWrm



20170919_0948.JPG (Center-Weighted Metering)

File20170919_0948.NEF
Date Created9/19/17 6:01
Date Modified9/19/17 6:01
File Size45.3 MB
Image SizeL (8256 x 5504), FX
Date Shot01:28.9
Time Zone and DateUTC+4, DST:OFF
Image QualityLossless Compressed RAW (12-bit)
DeviceNikon D850
Lens50mm f/1.8D
Focal Length50mm
Focus ModeAF-S
AF-Area ModeAuto
VR
AF Fine TuneON(0)
Aperturef/3.2
Shutter Speed1/40s
Exposure ModeProgrammed Auto
Exposure Comp.0EV
Exposure Tuning
MeteringCenter-Weighted
ISO SensitivityISO 400
Device
White BalanceAuto1, 0, 0 (8370K)
Color SpacesRGB
High ISO NROFF
Long Exposure NROFF
Active D-LightingOFF
Vignette ControlHigh
Auto Distortion ControlOFF
Picture Control[SD] STANDARD
Base[SD] STANDARD
Quick Adjust0
Sharpening3
Clarity1
Contrast0
Brightness0
Saturation0
Hue0


20170919_0949.JPG (Center-Weighted Metering)

File20170919_0949.NEF
Date Created9/19/17 6:01
Date Modified9/19/17 6:01
File Size43.0 MB
Image SizeL (8256 x 5504), FX
Date Shot01:38.4
Time Zone and DateUTC+4, DST:OFF
Image QualityLossless Compressed RAW (12-bit)
DeviceNikon D850
Lens50mm f/1.8D
Focal Length50mm
Focus ModeAF-S
AF-Area ModeAuto
VR
AF Fine TuneON(0)
Aperturef/4
Shutter Speed1/60s
Exposure ModeProgrammed Auto
Exposure Comp.0EV
Exposure Tuning
MeteringMatrix
ISO SensitivityISO 400
Device
White BalanceAuto1, 0, 0 (8450K)
Color SpacesRGB
High ISO NROFF
Long Exposure NROFF
Active D-LightingOFF
Vignette ControlHigh
Auto Distortion ControlOFF
Picture Control[SD] STANDARD
Base[SD] STANDARD
Quick Adjust0
Sharpening3
Clarity1
Contrast0
Brightness0
Saturation0
Hue0
20170919_0975.JPG (Center-Weighted Metering)

File20170919_0975.NEF
Date Created9/19/17 6:09
Date Modified9/19/17 6:09
File Size42.0 MB
Image SizeL (8256 x 5504), FX
Date Shot09:51.6
Time Zone and DateUTC+4, DST:OFF
Image QualityLossless Compressed RAW (12-bit)
DeviceNikon D850
Lens50mm f/1.8D
Focal Length50mm
Focus ModeAF-S
AF-Area ModeGroup Area AF
VR
AF Fine TuneON(0)
Aperturef/5.6
Shutter Speed1/125s
Exposure ModeProgrammed Auto
Exposure Comp.0EV
Exposure Tuning
MeteringCenter-Weighted
ISO SensitivityISO 400
Device
White BalanceAuto1, 0, 0 (8240K)
Color SpacesRGB
High ISO NROFF
Long Exposure NROFF
Active D-LightingOFF
Vignette ControlHigh
Auto Distortion ControlOFF
Picture Control[SD] STANDARD
Base[SD] STANDARD
Quick Adjust0
Sharpening3
Clarity1
Contrast0
Brightness0
Saturation0
Hue0
20170919_0976.JPG (Matrix Metering)

File20170919_0976.NEF
Date Created9/19/17 6:10
Date Modified9/19/17 6:10
File Size41.5 MB
Image SizeL (8256 x 5504), FX
Date Shot10:04.8
Time Zone and DateUTC+4, DST:OFF
Image QualityLossless Compressed RAW (12-bit)
DeviceNikon D850
Lens50mm f/1.8D
Focal Length50mm
Focus ModeAF-S
AF-Area ModeGroup Area AF
VR
AF Fine TuneON(0)
Aperturef/5.6
Shutter Speed1/125s
Exposure ModeProgrammed Auto
Exposure Comp.0EV
Exposure Tuning
MeteringMatrix
ISO SensitivityISO 400
Device
White BalanceAuto1, 0, 0 (8280K)
Color SpacesRGB
High ISO NROFF
Long Exposure NROFF
Active D-LightingOFF
Vignette ControlHigh
Auto Distortion ControlOFF
Picture Control[SD] STANDARD
Base[SD] STANDARD
Quick Adjust0
Sharpening3
Clarity1
Contrast0
Brightness0
Saturation0
Hue0

Once again, thanks a lot for your feedback! I sincerely appreciate it.

BR,
Taha
 

tahafarooq

New member
Maybe the mods/admins hate me. I posted a detailed reply with EXIF extracts, but its still waiting for moderator approval. I went back to the same location and took a few more pics. I've uploaded them to Flickr under the album 19th September: https://www.flickr.com/photos/76355505@N04/albums. 4 photos: 2 Matrix Metered and 2 Center-Weighted Metered. It seems that metering was the issue. I guess I still have a lot more to learn about photography in general. Will put the D850 to good use. Thanks everyone for your help. Really appreciate it.
 

hark

Administrator
Staff member
Super Mod
Contributor
Maybe the mods/admins hate me. I posted a detailed reply with EXIF extracts, but its still waiting for moderator approval. I went back to the same location and took a few more pics. I've uploaded them to Flickr under the album 19th September: https://www.flickr.com/photos/76355505@N04/albums. 4 photos: 2 Matrix Metered and 2 Center-Weighted Metered. It seems that metering was the issue. I guess I still have a lot more to learn about photography in general. Will put the D850 to good use. Thanks everyone for your help. Really appreciate it.
[MENTION=6277]Don Kuykendall[/MENTION] are there posting limits for new members? I seem to remember John addressing that at some point. Any way you can approve his post or pics?
 
Maybe the mods/admins hate me. I posted a detailed reply with EXIF extracts, but its still waiting for moderator approval. I went back to the same location and took a few more pics. I've uploaded them to Flickr under the album 19th September: https://www.flickr.com/photos/76355505@N04/albums. 4 photos: 2 Matrix Metered and 2 Center-Weighted Metered. It seems that metering was the issue. I guess I still have a lot more to learn about photography in general. Will put the D850 to good use. Thanks everyone for your help. Really appreciate it.

The photos need to be with the EXIF data so the posts you did are not much good. You would do better if you post the photos here using the following method the EXIF data will show up automatically.

Guidelines to adding a photo to your post.

1. Resize photo to 1000px on the long side.
2. Resolution set to 72ppi (Pixels Per Inch)

These guidelines will be good for viewing on a computer but will not be good for printing. This will help safeguard your copyright.







 

tahafarooq

New member
Thanks. Here are the images again:

Matrix Metering
20170919_0948.jpg

Matrix Metering
20170919_0949.jpg

Center Weighted
20170919_0975.jpg

Matrix Metering
20170919_0976.jpg

In conclusion, the issue is with the user. Not the camera.

BR,
Taha
 
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