Focus points for tracking birds in flight or other fast moving objects ???

Dakota

Senior Member
On the D7200 for tracking fast moving things such as birds in flight boat races, car races, airplane in flight which would you use for the best tracking AFS, AFC? Also will these work with continuous auto focus while tracking the object? Which focus points will be best single, 9, 21, 51? I want to ne able to hold focus while tracking especially birds inflight. Feedback appreciated

Thanks Bill
 

Roy1961

Senior Member
Contributor
AFC and single or group focus is what i always use for BIF, remember to have your SS 1/1600 or greater if you can.
 

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
AF-C d51 is what you should be using. This give you a single point to establish focus and then the widest area under which the focus system will continue to track it. Using just a single point requires you keep that point on the object or lose focus.

From there it's critical to adjust your focus tracking settings so they best allow you to follow the object without losing focus should something else (branch, tree, another bird) come into the focus area. I use a D500 for birds so my settings are a little different - you need to experiment to find out what works best for you.

This question gets asked about every 2-3 months here and every time I do I remind folks of the search feature and then (re)post this video.

As was mentioned, shutter speed is critical here, as is the proper aperture for clarity (Shutter Priority will usually have you go to wide open which can hurt clarity). I shoot in Manual Mode setting shutter (1/1600+ though I may go lower depending on the light), usually around f7.1 on a 300mm f4 PF with 1.4x, and Auto ISO set with a max at 4000-6400 depending on the situation.
 
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Danno

Senior Member
On the D7200 for tracking fast moving things such as birds in flight boat races, car races, airplane in flight which would you use for the best tracking AFS, AFC? Also will these work with continuous autofocus while tracking the object? Which focus points will be best single, 9, 21, 51? I want to be able to hold focus while tracking especially birds in flight. Feedback appreciated

Thanks Bill

Bill, I am with Roy on this focus. I have a D7200 and a Nikon 200-500 f/5.6 and I run SS around 1600 and Aperture form 5.6-7.1 with Auto ISO with a max of 2000 or 2500 depending on the weather. Birds will jump into the trees sometimes. I also use a single point. I tried using more but had less than stellar results.

I love the video above. It helped me a lot when I started trying to shoot birds. I also went ahead and downloaded https://backcountrygallery.com/secrets-nikon-autofocus-system/ by Steve Perry and watched a number of his videos on wildlife photography. I like his stuff.
 

hark

Administrator
Staff member
Super Mod
Contributor
AF-C d51 is what you should be using. This give you a single point to establish focus and then the widest area under which the focus system will continue to track it. Using just a single point requires you keep that point on the object or lose focus.

From there it's critical to adjust your focus tracking settings so they best allow you to follow the object without losing focus should something else (branch, tree, another bird) come into the focus area. I use a D500 for birds so my settings are a little different - you need to experiment to find out what works best for you.

This question gets asked about every 2-3 months here and every time I do I remind folks of the search feature and then (re)post this video.

As was mentioned, shutter speed is critical here, as is the proper aperture for clarity (Shutter Priority will usually have you go to wide open which can hurt clarity). I shoot in Manual Mode setting shutter (1/1600+ though I may go lower depending on the light), usually around f7.1 on a 300mm f4 PF with 1.4x, and Auto ISO set with a max at 4000-6400 depending on the situation.

This is the video someone shared here with me when I was looking for info on tracking moving subjects. The video does an excellent job of showing and explaining how to set your camera for tracking. I tried out all the types of settings explained in the video and wound up preferring the single point AF-C d51 like Jake mentioned.

You also have the choice of setting Release Priority or Focus Priority in AF-C. Usually Release Priority is the more widely used setting; however, I prefer Focus Priority. The difference is this: Release Priority will take multiple images quickly--they might not all be in sharp focus though. Focus Priority will only actuate the shutter when focus is locked on the subject. That means the camera may not fire as quickly. In the video, I think Steve says he prefers Release Priority because a lot of his images still come out in focus.

Be sure to test out all the types of tracking to determine which one works best for you.
 

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
This is the video someone shared here with me when I was looking for info on tracking moving subjects. The video does an excellent job of showing and explaining how to set your camera for tracking. I tried out all the types of settings explained in the video and wound up preferring the single point AF-C d51 like Jake mentioned.

You also have the choice of setting Release Priority or Focus Priority in AF-C. Usually Release Priority is the more widely used setting; however, I prefer Focus Priority. The difference is this: Release Priority will take multiple images quickly--they might not all be in sharp focus though. Focus Priority will only actuate the shutter when focus is locked on the subject. That means the camera may not fire as quickly. In the video, I think Steve says he prefers Release Priority because a lot of his images still come out in focus.

Be sure to test out all the types of tracking to determine which one works best for you.

Pssst, it was me. ;)

The thing about Release Priority is that you may eventually get focus as you're tracking the object as the system will continue to try and lock focus. You may at least get something close enough to use. It could be disappointing, yes, but not as disappointing as absolutely nothing but a camera to stare at and ask, "Why won't you focus, dammit?!" I've found that even once locked focus may go in and out a bit while following (that's your focus tracking settings) causing additional shots not to fire which can completely mess with your personal rhythm and focus while following. Not saying you're wrong (it's all personal preference), only filling in some blanks as to why I don't.
 

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
I also use a single point

Because I've run into this in more than one instance I need to clarify something that many people get wrong - AF-C S and AF-C d51 are both single point focus settings. So saying you "use single point focus" is a misnomer, or at least incomplete. The only difference between the two is how the focus point moves or tracks after locking. Before achieving focus both modes allow you to move the focus point within the viewfinder anywhere within the focus box so it can be used for the initial focus lock. After that is where the difference happens. With AF-C S you are required to keep that single point on the spot you want to remain focused, which I would posit is a near impossible task when handholding a big lens against a fast bird. With AF-C d51 (or any other dXX setting) after the focus point initially locks it is free to move within the set number of focus points to stay locked on the original spot. So if the bird is migrating north, south, east and/or west within the viewfinder the camera is going to try and keep the same part of the bird in focus.

The problem in referring to the other modes as "non-single point" or worse yet "multi-point" is that it's not correct. Modes like Group or 3D are "multi-point" because they allow the camera's focusing system to choose the locked focus point from among multiple points. The camera may then lock on multiple points, but only because they are equidistant and all in focus. I can't tell you how many times I've seen questions that ask about using multi-point focus but "not being able to get multiple things in focus".

If you understand the difference great, but perpetuating "single point" instead of saying "center point" (which is almost always the case) can cause a great deal of confusion.
 

hark

Administrator
Staff member
Super Mod
Contributor
Pssst, it was me. ;)

My short term memory isn't what it used to be...that's for sure! :beguiled:

As for the release priority vs. focus priority, honestly I think I've been going back and forth between both. I seem to use focus priority more often.

Before I ever experimented with the various types of tracking, I REALLY thought 3D tracking would be my preference...that was until I tried it out. My camera was set for it, and I happened to come upon a flowing stream. Raised the viewfinder to my eye and pressed the back button. :unconscious: The focus dot raced around in the viewfinder faster than Superman! Seriously, it was all over the place. I've never used 3D tracking since. ;)
 

hark

Administrator
Staff member
Super Mod
Contributor
Because I've run into this in more than one instance I need to clarify something that many people get wrong - AF-C S and AF-C d51 are both single point focus settings. So saying you "use single point focus" is a misnomer, or at least incomplete. The only difference between the two is how the focus point moves or tracks after locking. Before achieving focus both modes allow you to move the focus point within the viewfinder anywhere within the focus box so it can be used for the initial focus lock. After that is where the difference happens. With AF-C S you are required to keep that single point on the spot you want to remain focused, which I would posit is a near impossible task when handholding a big lens against a fast bird. With AF-C d51 (or any other dXX setting) after the focus point initially locks it is free to move within the set number of focus points to stay locked on the original spot. So if the bird is migrating north, south, east and/or west within the viewfinder the camera is going to try and keep the same part of the bird in focus.

The problem in referring to the other modes as "non-single point" or worse yet "multi-point" is that it's not correct. Modes like Group or 3D are "multi-point" because they allow the camera's focusing system to choose the locked focus point from among multiple points. The camera may then lock on multiple points, but only because they are equidistant and all in focus. I can't tell you how many times I've seen questions that ask about using multi-point focus but "not being able to get multiple things in focus".

If you understand the difference great, but perpetuating "single point" instead of saying "center point" (which is almost always the case) can cause a great deal of confusion.

Oops. :stupid: I need to go back and switch settings between AF-C S and AF-C d51 to see their differences because *I* am one who is perpetuating this misinformation. Thanks for pointing it out, Jake. :eek:
 

subash jeram

Senior Member
Because I've run into this in more than one instance I need to clarify something that many people get wrong - AF-C S and AF-C d51 are both single point focus settings. So saying you "use single point focus" is a misnomer, or at least incomplete. The only difference between the two is how the focus point moves or tracks after locking. Before achieving focus both modes allow you to move the focus point within the viewfinder anywhere within the focus box so it can be used for the initial focus lock. After that is where the difference happens. With AF-C S you are required to keep that single point on the spot you want to remain focused, which I would posit is a near impossible task when handholding a big lens against a fast bird. With AF-C d51 (or any other dXX setting) after the focus point initially locks it is free to move within the set number of focus points to stay locked on the original spot. So if the bird is migrating north, south, east and/or west within the viewfinder the camera is going to try and keep the same part of the bird in focus.

The problem in referring to the other modes as "non-single point" or worse yet "multi-point" is that it's not correct. Modes like Group or 3D are "multi-point" because they allow the camera's focusing system to choose the locked focus point from among multiple points. The camera may then lock on multiple points, but only because they are equidistant and all in focus. I can't tell you how many times I've seen questions that ask about using multi-point focus but "not being able to get multiple things in focus".

If you understand the difference great, but perpetuating "single point" instead of saying "center point" (which is almost always the case) can cause a great deal of confusion.

I’m a big fan of Steve Perry, I’ve bought two of his e-books n watched all his vids, but @BackdoorHippie, I think you got it just right. Thank you for that clarity.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Woodyg3

Senior Member
Contributor
Dakota, there has been lots of good info provided here. The only thing I will add is that it takes practice to get good shots of birds in flight, race cars zooming past, etc. Don't be too concerned if you have some bad sets of shots. You'll get better. :)
 

Danno

Senior Member
Because I've run into this in more than one instance I need to clarify something that many people get wrong - AF-C S and AF-C d51 are both single point focus settings. So saying you "use single point focus" is a misnomer, or at least incomplete. The only difference between the two is how the focus point moves or tracks after locking. Before achieving focus both modes allow you to move the focus point within the viewfinder anywhere within the focus box so it can be used for the initial focus lock. After that is where the difference happens. With AF-C S you are required to keep that single point on the spot you want to remain focused, which I would posit is a near impossible task when handholding a big lens against a fast bird. With AF-C d51 (or any other dXX setting) after the focus point initially locks it is free to move within the set number of focus points to stay locked on the original spot. So if the bird is migrating north, south, east and/or west within the viewfinder the camera is going to try and keep the same part of the bird in focus.

The problem in referring to the other modes as "non-single point" or worse yet "multi-point" is that it's not correct. Modes like Group or 3D are "multi-point" because they allow the camera's focusing system to choose the locked focus point from among multiple points. The camera may then lock on multiple points, but only because they are equidistant and all in focus. I can't tell you how many times I've seen questions that ask about using multi-point focus but "not being able to get multiple things in focus".

If you understand the difference great, but perpetuating "single point" instead of saying "center point" (which is almost always the case) can cause a great deal of confusion.


BackdoorHippie, I did not say any of this. In fact, I only mention that I use single point and set my camera up using the video and the book by Steve Perry. I do set both my D700 and D7200 up with BBF and AF-C and I set AF point selection to AF51 and as Steve explains in the video and book I set mine up that way using a single point and only work up to the Dynamic area modes first 9 then 21 and rarely 51 because my experience has been just as Steve describes it in the latter part of the video. AF 9 or AF 11 I end up with wings instead of eyes in focus many times. But that is MY experience... and until NOW I did not share it.

Now I use a Gimbal and a tripod when I rarely shoot the big lens, but I still find it better. I am not making up terms as you elude too in your reply. That is beneath me. I know I get confused when I try to get into too much detail so I point people to experts that I respect rather than allow my ego to get in the way.
 

Woodyg3

Senior Member
Contributor
The problem is with Nikon's confusing focus mode terminology. You guys both know what you are talking about, it's all good. :)
 

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
BackdoorHippie, I did not say any of this. In fact, I only mention that I use single point and set my camera up using the video and the book by Steve Perry. ...

Not accusing anyone of anything, I'm just trying to stamp out the misconception that dynamic-area autofocus is not "single-point", mainly because Nikon specifically labels one of the options in available in AF-C as just that but they all allow the selection of only one point. This leads people (like me until I really got it) to believe that selecting something other than S in would cause the camera to vary the AF point as it saw fit and not work with what I selected, therefore adopting the idea that it was somehow "multi-point" and not bothering to understand the concept (Canon's use of "multi-point" further exacerbating the misunderstanding).

As with everything camera related, how you set things personally depend a lot on how you shoot. I would state unequivocally that well less than 1% of my wildlife shots are taken with a tripod, so my choices are greatly influenced by the fact that I'm handholding long glass with no specific target in mind until it comes to me, usually faster and more erratically than I could ever follow with a tripod head. That means 153 dynamic focus points on my D500, which does cause the point to migrate occasionally (something I make up for shooting at f7.1 or f8) and me to lose entire parts of larger birds as it gets very close or flies immediately overhead (something I make up for by shooting at 10fps in a calculated spray and pray methodology). For larger wildlife, waterfowl, and the like the ability to sweep a Gimbal head makes fewer focus points easier to deal with particularly when sweeping strictly horizontally with only minor up/down movement. The important thing to understand is how each combination of settings plays with each situation.
 

Texas

Senior Member
I miss the old days when the photographer had to do some work, like focusing.

Fun to use my manual focus lenses.
 

Texas

Senior Member
The lenses were metal, felt good to focus...
and they did not wobble

there was no end of ground glass choices too

you could even spray and pray with a motor drive, up to 36 exposures anyway
 
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