D7100 and TTL external flash

gabyte00

Senior Member
Hi guys, I have a request for those of you who are using D7100 with SB700 / SB900 / SB910. Try to take a few pictures with the same settings on the camera and flash, identical frames. The flash must be în TTL or TTL-BL straight forward or bounced.
When I do that one or two of max 10 frames are underexposed. The flash is firing but very little power. The issue is more visible if the flash is bounced from a ceiling or wall. The pictures can be 10 or 15 sec apart so there is no battery going bad issue. There is nothing wrong with flash as it has been verified. I tried this on another D7100 and on mine I tried SB700/900/910. The problem only occurs when using TTL or TTL-BL. If the flash is in M mode or using fvlock everything works fine.
The camera had been sent to service 2 times by now and they said that is nothing wrong. I opened up a topic on a forum in my country and since then other people confirmed the problem exists.
This is a serious issue for me because I'm an event photographer and I'm using flash and ttl guite often. I couldn't find anything on this forum about this and I'm wondering if you guys spotted this problem.
 

WayneF

Senior Member
Try to take a few pictures with the same settings on the camera and flash, identical frames. The flash must be în TTL or TTL-BL straight forward or bounced.

These are four very different situations. But only two for the SB-700 which only does TTL BL (unless in Spot Metering mode). Saying, Nikon's is a TTL BL system, and SB-700 has no override menu.


When I do that one or two of max 10 frames are underexposed. The flash is firing but very little power. The issue is more visible if the flash is bounced from a ceiling or wall. The pictures can be 10 or 15 sec apart so there is no battery going bad issue. There is nothing wrong with flash as it has been verified. I tried this on another D7100 and on mine I tried SB700/900/910. The problem only occurs when using TTL or TTL-BL. If the flash is in M mode or using fvlock everything works fine.

I am confused by what you did not report. You mentioned a few situations, but specified no results? Always same results? You say both cameras and all flash models do this?

The SB-700 only does TTL BL, the others have a menu to select mode.

Since you imply all cameras and all flash models do this, then ...

Are all of your cases exactly the same scene? Like camera on a tripod, and totally unmoved from one shot to the next? To be exactly the same scene? And all same metering mode?

Because, TTL metering depends on what the meter sees. White scenes (white walls, etc) tend to underexpose. Dark colored scenes (black backgrounds, etc) tend to overexpose. Just How Light Meters Work

Can you post two which shows this difference?
 

gabyte00

Senior Member
Don Kuykendall - Thank u and done.

WayneF - Yes the results are all the same. Since I got the camera in October I haven't succesufully used TTL in a 10 picture series without underexposing one or two regardless of the settings on the camera or flash. I tried, with the same results, all camera metering modes (spot, center, matrix), different lenses, manual/auto focus, only Manual mode. I tried one SB700, two SB900, my SB910, two battery sets fully charged (Sanyo Eneloop XX and Maha Imedion). I tried my SB910 on a D60/D700/D600 and have no such problems.

By now I have around 5000 actuations trying different settings and gear. In the samples below the flash is heading up in the ceiling.



DSC_4106.jpgDSC_4107.jpgDSC_4108.jpg
 

WayneF

Senior Member

WayneF - Yes the results are all the same. Since I got the camera in October I haven't succesufully used TTL in a 10 picture series without underexposing one or two regardless of the settings on the camera or flash. I tried, with the same results, all camera metering modes (spot, center, matrix), different lenses, manual/auto focus, only Manual mode. I tried one SB700, two SB900, my SB910, two battery sets fully charged (Sanyo Eneloop XX and Maha Imedion). I tried my SB910 on a D60/D700/D600 and have no such problems.

By now I have around 5000 actuations trying different settings and gear. In the samples below the flash is heading up in the ceiling.



Agreed those are all the same scene, which should meter the same in the same metering situation. (Sorry, I really did expect otherwise )

Are you sure that the flash is actually firing in all cases? I cannot tell much about the shadows, esp in the dark one. Misfiring is really the only thing I can imagine however. Is the flash in the hot shoe, or triggered some other way?

Flashes possibly could become inconsistent, but since you say all flashes are affected the same, it would not be some one bad flash unit. It instead sounds like a defect in the camera metering or triggering. I cannot guess what it could be however, I've never been aware of any such problem description. If it might be a radio trigger, that seems the first thing to suspect.

I cannot duplicate anything like that with SB-800 on D300 or D800. But FWIW, metering situations definitely can change things. All of your stated cases ought NOT to be the same. Center, Matrix, or Spot only affects ambient, does not affect the flash, which has its own metering system in the camera (but TTL BL is affected by ambient). Matrix can be affected by bright ambient not in the center (which then can affect TTL BL). Spot metering changes the TTL BL mode to be TTL mode, which can often make a big difference to the flash exposure (often better indoors). FV Lock can change things too.
 

gabyte00

Senior Member
Agreed those are all the same scene, which should meter the same in the same metering situation. (Sorry, I really did expect otherwise )

No problem.

Are you sure that the flash is actually firing in all cases? I cannot tell much about the shadows, esp in the dark one. Misfiring is really the only thing I can imagine however. Is the flash in the hot shoe, or triggered some other way?

The flas is firing every single time but in those underexposed pictures is firing at very small amount of power. You cand tell this by the naked eye and know that you got an underexposed one before it appears on lcd creen.

The reason that I did most of my tests with the flash bounced is that if the flash head is in normal position the difference between the shots is smaller because even if the flash is firing low power you can still see it. This way that low power has no significance in the final shot.

The flash is in the hotshoe on the camera. I cannot duplicate the problem using CLS and on camera flash to trigger the SB910. I also have a Pixel Pawn trigger/receiver but it's not TTL capable so it works just fine. Firing every time.

I cannot duplicate anything like that with SB-800 on D300 or D800.

I've had a D60, D3000, I've worked with D300, D700 and I never had this situation before. So for sure you cannot duplicate this on another model. That's why I asked peope with D7100 to try this and see the results. I'm trying to find out if there is an issue with a batch of D7100s or is a general thing. On our Nikon official forum here in Romania I've found at least 4 people who experienced this.

All of your stated cases ought NOT to be the same.

As I said before, I have around 5000 shots trying to isolate the problem. I've tried many lighting situations. From groups of people in churches and restaurants to simple scenes with one object and one color backround. There is no difference, the results are the same.


I to suspect a defect in the camera especially with the TTL system. I wrote Nikon Europe about this and they said to give them time until december to run some tests of their own so I'm waitng for their results.

There is a discussion on flickr about this Flickr: Discussing Flash misfire in The Nikon D7100 Group
 

gabyte00

Senior Member
Agreed those are all the same scene, which should meter the same in the same metering situation. (Sorry, I really did expect otherwise )

No problem.

Are you sure that the flash is actually firing in all cases? I cannot tell much about the shadows, esp in the dark one. Misfiring is really the only thing I can imagine however. Is the flash in the hot shoe, or triggered some other way?

The flas is firing every single time but in those underexposed pictures is firing at very small amount of power. You cand tell this by the naked eye and know that you got an underexposed one before it appears on lcd creen.

The reason that I did most of my tests with the flash bounced is that if the flash head is in normal position the difference between the shots is smaller because even if the flash is firing low power you can still see it. This way that low power has no significance in the final shot.

The flash is in the hotshoe on the camera. I cannot duplicate the problem using CLS and on camera flash to trigger the SB910. I also have a Pixel Pawn trigger/receiver but it's not TTL capable so it works just fine. Firing every time.

I cannot duplicate anything like that with SB-800 on D300 or D800.

I've had a D60, D3000, I've worked with D300, D700 and I never had this situation before. So for sure you cannot duplicate this on another model. That's why I asked peope with D7100 to try this and see the results. I'm trying to find out if there is an issue with a batch of D7100s or is a general thing. On our Nikon official forum here in Romania I've found at least 4 people who experienced this.

All of your stated cases ought NOT to be the same.

As I said before, I have around 5000 shots trying to isolate the problem. I've tried many lighting situations. From groups of people in churches and restaurants to simple scenes with one object and one color backround. There is no difference, the results are the same.


I to suspect a defect in the camera especially with the TTL system. I wrote Nikon Europe about this and they said to give them time until december to run some tests of their own so I'm waitng for their results.

There is a discussion on flickr about this Flickr: Discussing Flash misfire in The Nikon D7100 Group
 

gabyte00

Senior Member
Agreed those are all the same scene, which should meter the same in the same metering situation. (Sorry, I really did expect otherwise )

No problem.

Are you sure that the flash is actually firing in all cases? I cannot tell much about the shadows, esp in the dark one. Misfiring is really the only thing I can imagine however. Is the flash in the hot shoe, or triggered some other way?

The flas is firing every single time but in those underexposed pictures is firing at very small amount of power. You cand tell this by the naked eye and know that you got an underexposed one before it appears on lcd creen.

The reason that I did most of my tests with the flash bounced is that if the flash head is in normal position the difference between the shots is smaller because even if the flash is firing low power you can still see it. This way that low power has no significance in the final shot.

The flash is in the hotshoe on the camera. I cannot duplicate the problem using CLS and on camera flash to trigger the SB910. I also have a Pixel Pawn trigger/receiver but it's not TTL capable so it works just fine. Firing every time.

I cannot duplicate anything like that with SB-800 on D300 or D800.

I've had a D60, D3000, I've worked with D300, D700 and I never had this situation before. So for sure you cannot duplicate this on another model. That's why I asked peope with D7100 to try this and see the results. I'm trying to find out if there is an issue with a batch of D7100s or is a general thing. On our Nikon official forum here in Romania I've found at least 4 people who experienced this.

All of your stated cases ought NOT to be the same.

As I said before, I have around 5000 shots trying to isolate the problem. I've tried many lighting situations. From groups of people in churches and restaurants to simple scenes with one object and one color backround. There is no difference, the results are the same.


I to suspect a defect in the camera especially with the TTL system. I wrote Nikon Europe about this and they said to give them time until december to run some tests of their own so I'm waitng for their results.
 

Damian Malaczek

Senior Member
I think I have the same problem with my new d7100 and yn 468. I did not use it a lot But I did noticed that right away. I used same flash on d5100 and all was great. I think there might be an issue.
 

gabyte00

Senior Member
Oh you just remind me. I have an old Nissin Di622 mkI and it's behaving like all the SBs I've tried. I also remembered that I tried for a very short time one SB800 which did NOT manifest any of those problems. I was at the begining of my investigation and I did not pay much attention to that, but later I've found a discussion on flickr where people claiming that the only flash whinch does not underexpose is SB800. I don't have it anymore so I don't know if that's true or not.
 

Damian Malaczek

Senior Member
I found that this happens first time I put on a flash. Wait for flash to charge and when I fire first shot flash will not fire. Next one is ok. Sometimes ttl does not measure correctly and under exposes picture. Any body else noticed that?
 

gabyte00

Senior Member
Update: I sent my camera for the fourth time to Nikon and they finally solved my problem. They won't tell me what they've done but it works just fine. In the papers they sent me it says firmware update, but the camera had the latest firmware when I got it. So I don;t know what the problem was or how they solved but they did.

I no longer have underexposed pictures even if I burst a few shots. Before, in a series of 5 or 6, one of them was underexposed.

I'm happy now I can use my D7100 how i'm supposed to. It took four service entry's, e-mails and complaints to Nikon Europe, about 5 weeks with no camera, but finally it's solved.
 

Damian Malaczek

Senior Member
Update: I sent my camera for the fourth time to Nikon and they finally solved my problem. They won't tell me what they've done but it works just fine. In the papers they sent me it says firmware update, but the camera had the latest firmware when I got it. So I don;t know what the problem was or how they solved but they did.

I no longer have underexposed pictures even if I burst a few shots. Before, in a series of 5 or 6, one of them was underexposed.

I'm happy now I can use my D7100 how i'm supposed to. It took four service entry's, e-mails and complaints to Nikon Europe, about 5 weeks with no camera, but finally it's solved.

Thanks for update. Maybe there is an firmware update. That they did not release to public. We will see soon. I hope they correct this soon. Thanks
 

Convict

New member
I'm reading this thread with a great deal of interest, and a degree of concern, as I'm having similar issues.

The problem is really quite intermittent and happens less often if I leave it on spot metering, but consistently it will shoot at the highest ISO possible. If left on auto, it'll take at 6400 all night long.

I'd joined this forum to find some answers to my issues as I'd assumed I was the problem, not my camera. Is it the camera???
 
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