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  1. #21
    Senior Member
    Bikerbrent's Avatar

    Re: Searching for a D700 a good idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by carguy View Post
    I'm not sure I follow. How would buying a newer model camera help with the price of good FX glass?
    Buying a newer model camera would NOT help with the price of good FX glass. But, saving a few dollars buying a 12MP sensor camera vs. a 24MP sensor camera might well be false economy.


    › See More: Searching for a D700 a good idea?
    Brent: Poway, CA
    D7200, D200, F100
    Tokina 12-24mm
    Nikon 18-200mm
    Tokina 28-70mm f2.6-2.8
    Nikon 80-200mm f2.8
    Sigma 150-600mm
    Nikon 50 AF f1.8
    Tokina 100mm f2.8 Macro
    Nikon SB800



  2. #22
    Senior Member
    Woodyg3's Avatar

    Re: Searching for a D700 a good idea?

    Just to throw another idea out there, D7200s are going for crazy low prices right now, and while they are not full frame, they would be a big jump forward in performance and megapixels. No new lenses to buy that way.

    I'm not trying to talk you out of a D700. That would be a fun camera to own, and it's a good $5-600 less than a D750.
    Woody Green

    Clear Eyes, Full Hearts, Can't Lose

    D500, D7200, D7100, D70

  3. #23
    Senior Member
    spb_stan's Avatar

    Re: Searching for a D700 a good idea?

    There is something important missing in this thread....what do you shoot? Does Fx aid or hinder that subject type?
    Due to larger photo sitesm the D700 has a little, better signal to noise ratio is better by 1/2 a stop with the D700 in Fx mode but in Dx mode in case you are using Dx lenses, the D90 has better dynamic range and color depth throughout the ISO range. Both cameras are clearly weaker in dynamic range than newer cameras. At low ISO, the D90 is better in DR in both Dx and Fx mode.

    Consider a D700 as end of life meaning most parts are no longer available from Nikon.
    If you are staying with Dx lenses( by far the most expensive part of FX), a unused D7200 would beat the D700 in all criteria from detail, DR, high ISO, color depth etc.
    If you shoot sports or wildlife, stay with DX. A D90 is a very competent camera with the only weakness is topping out at ISO 6400 but the noise at 6400 is only one stop lower than a D700 so neither is a low light camera. I have a D90 with 330,000 frames, almost 3 times the expected shutter life and it is still quite competent if decent lenses are used. Some of my my admired portraits and landscapes were taken with a D90 mated to decent lenses


    The D700 is built really well but is heavier and larger, a little better AF module but with a lot more focusing points. At the time it was pro build and better weather sealing but is getting old enough that any defect will either be unrepairable due to lack of parts or high labor costs. Any repair that required cracking the case is $300 minimum for labor alone. So consider it a disposable camera.
    How much is the used body and what focal length FX lenses would you need to buy. Remember, DX telephoto lenses are 50 more "reach", for the same field of view on a Fx. So telephoto lens for say 200mm on field of view you have on your D90, will require a much larger more expensive, heavier/larger 300mm lens on Fx.
    IF you are mostly interested the landscape, FX has some real advantages.

    If you are interested mostly in improved image quality and do not have fast primes, invest in those, a much better return on investment. For example a 85 1.8G used for $375 mounted on your D90 will mage that combination a great portrait kit. If you do not have lighting such as speed lights, umbrellas, light stands, and light portraits or interior shooting, get 1 or more speed lights($50), modifier($20), stand($20) and your current camera will beat almost any casual non augmented light setup. Top quality portraits can be done with almost any camera with good lighting and a little imagination.

    So, please reply with what you want to shoot and what is expected from any improvement. Camera bodies are almost the least impact on image quality.
    Thanks/Like carguy, daveward Thanks/liked this post
     

  4. #24
    Senior Member

    Re: Searching for a D700 a good idea?

    Woody, I have always believed a d7200 would be a great upgrade for me...as I started this thing with: I have a great FX curiosity that I just can’t seem to shake off. Perhaps it is just the very simple notion that with FX over DX I would have bigger images from which to start. Too simplistic a view perhaps, but that’s why I was wondering about getting into FX as inexpensively as possible, to see for myself the differences.

    Stan...what do I shoot? Great question. Let’s just say in simplest terms my favorite subjects are landscapes, mountains, rivers, sunsets, etc.

    Again, to everyone who has replied...I appreciate all the encouragement and cautions...everything suggested makes sense. Thanks.

  5. #25
    Senior Member
    FredKingston's Avatar

    Re: Searching for a D700 a good idea?

    Just a final observation. There’s nothing that says you can’t have both FX and DX systems… And multiples of each…
    Thanks/Like Woodyg3 Thanks/liked this post
     

  6. #26
    Senior Member
    spb_stan's Avatar

    Re: Searching for a D700 a good idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by daveward View Post

    Stan...what do I shoot? Great question. Let’s just say in simplest terms my favorite subjects are landscapes, mountains, rivers, sunsets, etc.

    .
    Ok, this is getting somewhere. FX is advantageous with wide angles because it naturally has a wider angle of view. All those subjects would really benefit from a decent wide zoom. For Dx, an ultrawide angle like the low cost Sigma 10-20, 3.5 or the lower cost variable aperture version that goto 5.6 as maximum aperture. That latter version is often the first dedicated wide angle that people get when beginning landscape Used it can be had for $100 It is Dx onl so could be used effectively with the D90 or a more modern D7200. Your camera is older so many people look down their noses at it but it was the frist Nikon of the new series that was essentially ISO less which means there was a linear decrease in signal to noise ration as ISO was increased. That means that exposing corrrectly had about the same DR/signal to noise ratio as greatly underexposing by 4-5 stops to allow getting the shutter speed up, amd boasting exposure gain in post processing to turn the very dark under exposed image to retain its detail and allow a 4 stop increase of shutter speed, and regain the exposure in post processing by boosting exposure 4 stops and end up with the same signal to noise ratio in the final displayimage.
    The D90 would be fine with a 10-20mm ultra wide zoom and it would perform better at wide angles than a mid zoom like the kit 18-105. That 18-105 is actually a pretty good lens for optical performance but is not very good in low light because it does not gather as much light as wider aperture lenses.

  7. #27
    Senior Member

    Re: Searching for a D700 a good idea?

    Stan, I appreciate the extensive commentary, even though I’m not getting the significance of ‘signal to noise’, and I certainly understand the notion that with DX I could acquire good lenses to maximize either a D90 or D7200....however...I haven’t read yet a statement that with FX my experience would “not” be any better than with DX.

  8. #28
    Senior Member
    spb_stan's Avatar

    Re: Searching for a D700 a good idea?

    Searching for a D700 a good idea?
    A lot of the memory of how good the D700 was came from comparing to cameras of the time and it certainly was good in comparison but things changed very quickly about 2008-9 in sensor performance and even the D90, intended as a enthusiast camera at a lower price point, ended up with very competitive image quality compared to pro cameras costing far more in other brands. Here is a chart of the plots of Photographic Dynamic Range of some of the models in this discussion. The D700 had lower noise contributed by the sensor and analog amplifiers bu as you can see the Dx D90 released shortly after beat it in dynamic range, a measurement really important to landscape shooter. n DX mode the D700 was a full stop poorer at base ISO than the consumer D90, which also had higher resolution. The larger photosites on the full frame sensor gathered more light then other FF cameras on the market until the D3s update came out. So for color depth, signal to noise ratio(the level difference between the lowest light level capture that still had a 6 db more signal than noise in the signal, compared to the highest level of light representing full well exposure(the point of clipping when no additional light adds to the output signal) really improved in the D3s over the D3 and D700 which shared the same sensor and off chip analog amplifiers. For a few years nothing else in the market competed for dynamic range or low light performance of Nikon DSLRs. The D90 was the first hobbyist camera to rival pro cameras for image qulity. Canon users were crying because it would be years later when they started to catch up.. Now, the state of the art is not much different in performance of the lowest cost DSLRs and many crop cameras now beat all ff DSLRs of 10-12 years ago.
    All this is to illustrate how close those camera are. A D750 for example, used, is well under $1000 yet is neck and neck with the Z6 and D850. IF image quality, printability, color depth, resolution and dynamic range are important for your work, ....usually they are with landscapes than modern cameras are a better investment. If you are doing portraits, DR and resolution are not so important, in fact most modern cameras are too good for portraits which are aided by decreasing res and DR. The D700 still is a great portrait camera. So is the D90 and any camera made is if fed good lighting.

    In the list of features or accessories for landscape shooters, DR and Resolution are key but external to the body is low distortion lenses or at least single axis distortion that is easy to correct, sturdy stable tripod, and a set of ND and graduated filters. It is easier to make wide angle lenses of a specific field of view for Fx but most are also faster lenses which increases their weight and cost over Dx lenses of the same field of view. If you do not have a good tripod, that, for a landscaper, is more important than the body. IF you are printing large for close viewing, high resolution really helps. But for normal viewing(where you are far enough away from the image to see it fully without scanning your eyes or moving your head, to see it as a whole, identical to how paintings have an intended viewing distance) then high res is not important. A 12mpx image 48 inches on the longest side viewed from 5-6 feet away will be a finely resolved as a larger mpx count. Billboards intended to be viewed from 40 feet away look good a 4-5mpx.
    Unless there is some compelling feature, I would suggest staying with the body that has worked fine and focus on great tripod, and a nice wide angle
    lens
    Searching for a D700 a good idea?-screenshotatuploadcc_1564746490051.png

    Note on the chart how much degradation occurs even with high performance sensors when increasing ISO. A lower performance camera often does better at a stop lower ISO than a higher performance camera with ISO set higher than needed. An image shot at base ISO always had more detail and dynamic range than at higher ISO. That means you shooting a D90 at ISO 100 will have better signal to noise ratio than any excellent high ISO camera like the Z6 shot at ISO 400. So a good tripod allows shooting longer exposures and low ISO so as to equal top cameras shot at commonly used ISOs

  9. #29
    Junior Member

    Re: Searching for a D700 a good idea?

    I don't know if anyone has mentioned it, but full-frame lenses need not be expensive. There are plenty of capable, affordable manual focus and older AF lenses around that perform admirably. I use the same lenses for my D700 and my film Nikons, and have never had a complaint. You can even use your DX lenses, you just won't have access to the wide range of the zoom.





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