Upgraded to D610 from D3300 am I missing something?

Rob22

New member
Hello all,

I am very much an amateur photogropher. I have been shooting interiors for a few years on my D3300 with a tokina 12-28 to help market my small kitchen business.I usually shoot in manual on a tripod and try to use soft boxes if possible.

I have wanted to purchase an Fx camera for at least a year now, and recently after a dissapointing (noisey) photoshoot, I finally justified the purchase of a D610, as everything I have read leads me to believe that this camera would have superior low light performance when compared with my D3300. I managed to pick up a D610 with a few batteries etc, and more importantly for me a 16-35 1:4g ED

I took the camera to a local well respected camera shop to have the sensor cleaned as there were a few dust spots. They confirmed that the camera has been well looked after and is in good working condition. I did a few side by side test shots to compare and with exactly the same settings and conditions ( adjusted for focal length) the D610 seemed to produce consistantly darker images.

It just feels that when compared with the D3300 the light meter on the D610 is always showing as under exposed, and when I try to compensate for it the iso ends up sky high.

I shot a bedroom interior for the first time with the D610 today and it was a reasonably well lit with 2 windows letting a lot of light in. I was shooting in manual and enjoying the auto-iso function. I did not have my tripod with me and I was on f7.1 and 1/100 sec, the auto iso was being set around the 4000 mark. When I checked the images I found not only were they too underexposed for my liking, but also the noise was very visible. I am sure that If I had shot this same room with my D3300 under the same conditions, I would have achieved the correct exposure and without any noticable noise.



So my questions are as follows...

Are the Fx cameras supposed to generally work at higher iso when compared with a Dx camera at the same settings?

Am I missing something?



Please see the attached images (excuse the content of the picture it is just a store room.)

They were both taken with the following settings.

ISO800
21mm (D610) 14mm (D3300)
f11
1/8sec

Can anyone offer any suggestions?

Thanks in advance.
 

Rob22

New member
I have finally managed to attach the images
 

Attachments

  • d610small.jpg
    d610small.jpg
    36.1 KB · Views: 107
  • d3300small.jpg
    d3300small.jpg
    35.8 KB · Views: 91
If you will follow the directions below exactly it will add the photos to the posts and more importantly it will let us see the EXIF data.

Guidelines to adding a photo to your post.

1. Resize photo to 1000px on the long side.
2. Resolution set to 72ppi (Pixels Per Inch)

These guidelines will be good for viewing on a computer but will not be good for printing. This will help safeguard your copyright.







 

RocketCowboy

Senior Member
Howdy Rob and welcome to Nikonites!!!

Unfortunately, the EXIF is missing from the two attachments you posted, so not much detail to gather from those. Try the method Don outlines above and we can take a look.

I don't like to use auto-ISO, but I can't yet say whether this is contributing to the issue or not. In general, the larger sensors introduce less noise at higher ISO than their DX counterparts, but like everything it all depends on the sensor and the technology generation in use. Similarly, are you shooting/processing raw images, or having the camera do the jpeg processing?
 

Texas

Senior Member
you might check the meter offset menu option, I forget which one it is - it is sort of a master override and someone may have moved it off zero.

you never see any indication if it is off zero and there is a warning when you select that option - I take it back, there is a tiny something in the viewfinder as a warning

the setting you want is " B5 " in the menu system for the D610

see if it is set to something, or set it the way you want the meter to work

green dot button reset does NOT alter this setting
 
Last edited:

Rob22

New member
Hi All,

Thanks for the tips, hopefully these images should have the data.

Texas - I have checked B5 and all of the settings are at 0 ( but maybe this could be a good solution if I alter these settings to acheive the exposure I want, but may not solve the noise issue)

RocketCowboy - I shoot raw and then process in lightroom. I did the comparrison test without using the auto iso function, but it just seems like the D610 will choose very high iso when compared with the D3300 to achieve the same exposure.

Thanks again for your help. If I can provide any more info please let me know.
 

Attachments

  • d610small.jpg
    d610small.jpg
    277.5 KB · Views: 88
  • d3300small.jpg
    d3300small.jpg
    287.7 KB · Views: 93

Marcel

Happily retired
Staff member
Super Mod
Welcome to Nikonites Rob.

First, if you want to control noise, turn auto-iso OFF.

From the example you supplied, I think the exposure was OK "but" the subject was so light that you should have used exposure compensation to make it 1/3 to 1/2 step overexposed to compensate the actual scene. You have to remember that your camera does not know what you are photographing. If your subject had been dark, the camera would have overexposed. Maybe do a google search on "exposure triangle" and light metering to understand how camera exposure systems work.

It's worth it to learn basics if you want to improve your skills. There are no shortcuts nor magic recipes.

Good luck.
 

RocketCowboy

Senior Member
RocketCowboy - I shoot raw and then process in lightroom. I did the comparrison test without using the auto iso function, but it just seems like the D610 will choose very high iso when compared with the D3300 to achieve the same exposure.

If auto-ISO is off, the camera shouldn’t be choosing ISO at all.

Another thought I had was the metering mode; are you sure both cameras are set the same? It almost sounds like the D610 is using spot metering while the D3300 is set for matrix.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

pforsell

Senior Member
If auto-ISO is off, the camera shouldn’t be choosing ISO at all.

Another thought I had was the metering mode; are you sure both cameras are set the same? It almost sounds like the D610 is using spot metering while the D3300 is set for matrix.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Manual exposure mode, both ISO 800, f/11, 1/8 sec. Metering plays no role in these two images.

Anybody have lens T-stop values handy?

And OP, what happens if you let each camera meter the scene in matrix or center-weighted mode? And what happens if you put the 16-35 in both cameras, maybe at 20mm and 30mm setting to avoid vignetting. Comparing two cameras at the same exposure but with different lenses doesn't quite compute in my universe.
 

Blade Canyon

Senior Member
I agree to make two shots, same manual exposure settings and fixed ISO, with the same lens.

Any chance there is a polarizing filter (1.5 stops) or other filter on the FX lens? That would explain a darker image with manual exposure or higher auto-ISO selections by the body. When I was new (1983) I just left a CPL on the lens all the time until someone told me how much light it cuts out.

I had two D600 bodies and thought it was a great camera. No problems like the ones you are describing.
 
Hi All,

Thanks for the tips, hopefully these images should have the data.

Texas - I have checked B5 and all of the settings are at 0 ( but maybe this could be a good solution if I alter these settings to acheive the exposure I want, but may not solve the noise issue)

RocketCowboy - I shoot raw and then process in lightroom. I did the comparrison test without using the auto iso function, but it just seems like the D610 will choose very high iso when compared with the D3300 to achieve the same exposure.

Thanks again for your help. If I can provide any more info please let me know.

Exif still not showing up. did you resize to 1000px on the long end? anyway, just post the photo and add the EXIF data and then the next photo and then the EXIF data so wee can see what is going on
 

pforsell

Senior Member
Exif still not showing up. did you resize to 1000px on the long end? anyway, just post the photo and add the EXIF data and then the next photo and then the EXIF data so wee can see what is going on


? Full EXIF is visible ?



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pforsell

Senior Member
Had to cut this in half because of forum 20 kchar limit per post:




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CircleOfConfusion : 0.020 mm
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Rob22

New member
Hi All,

Thank you for the responses.

Bladecanyon, there is no filter attached to the lens.

Pforsell, I will try what you suggested with both cameras and same settings.

Hopefully we can get to the bottom of it, as I have only read good things about the D610, but it seems as though it's being outperformed at the moment by a d3300.

I take it there is nothing out of the ordinary with the exif data?

I will try and put a little more info together on the next shots also.




Thanks
 

hark

Administrator
Staff member
Super Mod
Contributor
I take it there is nothing out of the ordinary with the exif data?

Based on the info pforsell provided, these are not identical settings. The D3300 is set for -1 EV. The D610 is 0 EV. The color temp of the D610 is 2800. The color temp of the D3300 is 2850. What I notice is when the color temp is altered, the blacks and whites also change a little. That would affect the overall exposure slightly. So no, these weren't shot with the same settings.
 

hark

Administrator
Staff member
Super Mod
Contributor
Another possibility is the one lens might not be stopping down all the way when shooting which renders a brighter image even though the EXIF lists a specific aperture. Aperture blades can get sticky especially on older lenses and might be staying open more than they should.
 

Blade Canyon

Senior Member
I thought all of that information was helpful, particularly that both photos are being converted with Adobe Standard. If two camera bodies with manual settings shooting through the same lens are producing final shots that appear to be more than one stop apart in appearance, something's wrong. External light meters would not work at all otherwise. The only thing that makes any sense to me is that the RAW files are being interpreted differently by the software. Both files have sensitivity set to "Recommended Exposure Index."

OP, if you boost the exposure slider on the D610 so it looks the same as the D3300, is it noisier? It's possible that both files have all of the same information but are being initially presented differently by the rendering software.

The focal plane resolutions are significantly higher on the D3300. ?? Is the D610 shot cropped? You won't see much advantage to a D610 FX shot if you are cropping it back down to DX size. The whole point is to shoot the same area over the entire FX sensor so you get better resolution, more bokeh, and less noise. A D3300 has 24 mp in the DX sized sensor. A D610 has only 10.5 mp in the DX part of the sensor. So don't expect the D610 to outperform the D3300 if you are shooting in DX mode or if you are cropping the D610 shots down to DX size.

ETA: D'oh! Of course the D610 has a lower focal plane resolution because it's the same MP spread out over a bigger sensor. My bad...

The color temperature is off by 50, but that would not explain the difference in these photos.

I look forward to seeing two shots from both bodies using all manual settings, both shots using the whole of the sensor, and both using the exact same lens (though the focal length will have to be different to compare the same scene).

ETA: The -1 exp. comp on the 3300 should not make a difference in the output if all settings were manual.

ETA again: Both photos show the same Light Value.
 
Last edited:

Rob22

New member
Hello again,

Okay, so I have taken 2 images with the same lens adjusted focal length for Dx.

I think you will agree with the same lens, both images look to be equally exposed. However...

I noticed that the D3300 exposure meter indicated perfect exposure, whilst the D610 indicated nearly 1 stop over exposed.


1/50
f9
800 iso
matrix metering



I know that I can adjust the exposure compensation on the d610. but surely that is introducing more noise when compared with the D3300?

I did not think that there was -1 exp comp on the D3300 when I did the last set of images. I checked carefully and it was definately on 0 this time, so if the exif shows different, maybe that could be the problem?

Thanks all
 

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Rob22

New member
Just to Add, I am pretty sure that when we get to the bottom of this that we will have uncovered some newbie mistake by me that I was unaware of.

I had a look through both sets of camera settings and I just can't think what it could be?

Thanks again
 
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