'Subject is too dark' on a bright sunny cloudless day at noon

boofhead

Senior Member
Hi everyone, I am experiencing some frustration with my D5100. I am playing around in S mode (I usually use A mode) because I am taking photos at a cooking event on the weekend and want to get some action shots of the busy cooks cooking. I thought I would try S mode for this, so I've been practising.I keep getting "subject is too dark, cannot adjust exposure, choose a slower shutter speed' even outside on a bright sunny day at 12 noon. I was practising taking photos of my kids on their bikes and on swings. With the fast shutter speed (so I get frozen action, no blur) the camera takes the photo despite the warning message, but it turns out too dark given the glaring sunlight.I have seen this question asked many times however people are often shooting indoors or at night time. But I'm shooting outside on a day that can't be any brighter!When I slow down the shutter speed to the point where the warning message disappears and the image is lit well enough, I get blurred shots which is not what I want (for e.g. the blurry photo of child on a swing).I am using the regular kit lens that came with the camera. I have played around with the ISO settings, exposure compensation but to no avail. Even indoors in a very sunny, brightly lit room, my pictures are almost black.When I take photos of the cooks at the vent, I will be up close and happy to use the kit lens (as it will be crowded and I like to get right up close, further away with larger lens is hard as people will be walking in front of me). I have also played around with the 200mm lens but get the same 'subject is too dark' message in bright sunlight.I recently did a short photography course but the teacher was using A mode and our discussion of S mode was brief and I forgot to ask about this problem, doh. He did say increase your ISO to get the faster shutter speed and reduce blur but that doesn't make a difference.Because I am still a newbie and this cooking event will be very fast paced, I am a bit hesitant to fool around in M mode as I take too much time trying to get everything just right. I have to be moving quickly from stall to stall as it's a big, crowded event.Thanks :)
 

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
What shutter speed and ISO are you starting at, and what's the widest aperture on the lens you're using? Shutter Priority mode is going to try and set your aperture based on the speed and ISO, so on a bright sunny day if you're at 1/1000th and ISO 100 then you could be on the edge if your lens is in the f5.6 range at 200mm.

I would recommend using Auto ISO so the camera will pick the lowest ISO required to get your shot. If you find that it's too high and you get more noise than you want then think about lowering the shutter speed.

FYI, when shooting cooks in action sometimes having some motion in the hands/knives/tools can add to the shots, so shoot fast enough to freeze most, but not necessarily all action.
 

boofhead

Senior Member
480sparky: it's definitely set to 0 exposure comp.BackdoorHippie: I've just gone outside to take some pics (bright sunny day, no clouds, 1:15pm) :)I don't get the "subject is too dark, cannot adjust exposure, choose a slower shutter speed" message at 1/320 and below. Aperture gets set to f/4.5 by the camera.On 1/4000 the camera adjusted to f/5.6 and I was getting the 'subject too dark' message. ISO was on 200, I gradually bumped it up to 6400 (with the camera adjusting to f/7.1) which did help a bit, though I was still getting the 'subject too dark' messages.My camera's max aperture is f/3.5-5.6 (18-55mm lens that came with my D5100)Luckily some cars were driving by so I was able to take pics of them, though at the higher ISO the photos don't look so hot. Still a lot to learn...! I took some pics of chefs last year where the hand shots had some motion which looked pretty good, even though I had wanted frozen action so I agree with you there BackdoorHippie about some motion adding to shots! But I'd like to be completely prepared in case my pics this year show too much motion on the hands. Fortunately I'm not taking photos in a professional capacity, more a volunteer (there will be pros on the day) :D* Argh I'm sorry, when I type in my reply it's all spaced out but when it submits it turns in to one big paragraph, making it harder to read sorry!
 

RobV

Senior Member
Post an unedited sample.
@boofhead, when you post a picture on this forum, use "Insert Image from Computer" (as opposed to "from URL"), we can see the stats on how the picture was taken by the camera.

For instance, I copied this image from another post of mine, but I had to use the URL (I am at work...) and it did not include the EXIF data.
183175d1444763659t-nikon-300mm-f-4-af-1987-2000-a-_dsc0529.jpg

But if you go to my thread (or just about any on here) you can hover over the image and the box will appear the lower left hand corner.

http://nikonites.com/d5200/33385-nikon-300mm-f-4-af-1987-2000-a.html#post499873
 
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boofhead

Senior Member
thanks everyone. Here's a photo I took (the car happened to be driving past!) in Shutter mode, 1/4000 with me bumping the ISO up to 6400. On 1/4000 I was still getting the 'subject is too dark' message and it only stopped (I think) when the ISO got pretty high. I've cropped the photo down, just to edit out my neighbours and their houses :) Otherwise it is untouched. The EXIF data (according to the Gimp) is * Exposure time: 1/4000 sec * F number: f/14.0* ISO 6400
 

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Marcel

Happily retired
Staff member
Super Mod
thanks everyone. Here's a photo I took (the car happened to be driving past!) in Shutter mode, 1/4000 with me bumping the ISO up to 6400. On 1/4000 I was still getting the 'subject is too dark' message and it only stopped (I think) when the ISO got pretty high. I've cropped the photo down, just to edit out my neighbours and their houses :) Otherwise it is untouched. The EXIF data (according to the Gimp) is * Exposure time: 1/4000 sec * F number: f/14.0* ISO 6400

Why F 14? If you want to use a fast shutter speed you might want to consider opening up your diaphragm to lower the iso values... And for a static subject, depending on the lens used, 1/4000 is a bit too fast. You have to make a choice and you can't get it all: Low iso, super fast shutter speed and F 14 is a LOT to ask from any camera system...
 

Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
thanks everyone. Here's a photo I took (the car happened to be driving past!) in Shutter mode, 1/4000 with me bumping the ISO up to 6400. On 1/4000 I was still getting the 'subject is too dark' message and it only stopped (I think) when the ISO got pretty high. I've cropped the photo down, just to edit out my neighbours and their houses :) Otherwise it is untouched. The EXIF data (according to the Gimp) is * Exposure time: 1/4000 sec * F number: f/14.0* ISO 6400
It appears to me you are getting shots that are too dark because your settings are simply not a good combination for the environment you're shooting in and you're asking you camera to do the near impossible with those settings.

For static subjects, like this plant, think shutters speeds of around 1/60 as opposed to 1/4000. For slow motion, such as people moving at walking speed, bump your shutter speeds to around 1/250 or thereabouts. For faster motion (athletics, etc.) think 1/500 or 1/1000. These are just guidelines, mind you; they're not meant to be interpreted as hard and fast rules.

For aperture, f/14 is a bit deeper than what you probably need for this shot so I'd suggest you open up to, say, f/4 or f/5.6 and see how that looks.

I'd suggest you let Auto-ISO handle the rest but if you want to dial in a specific ISO you certainly can. For bright sunny days ISO's in the 100 to 300 range will be fine. I'd save mid-range ISO (400-1000 on your camera) for lower light situations and high-range ISO (anything above 1000 on your camera) to very low light situations.

Remember that exposure is a BALANCING act of Aperture, Shutter Speed and ISO. The trick is using the right combination for the scene you are trying to capture. Use what you need, maybe a little more, but not too much.
.....
 

aroy

Senior Member
Best method is to set the mode to "A", and check what speed you are getting. Too high an aperture will not only require higher speed (at a given ISO), but have a lot of softening due to diffraction. Here are steps to get reasonable images, which are well exposed, using the settings from your image :-

Your settings are
. ISO 6400
. Speed 1/4000
. Aperture F14

. Now reduce you Aperture to F7.1, ISO required is reduced to 800
. Reduce speed to 1/1000, ISO required is reduced to 200, that is manageable
. If you use primes and shoot at a distance, then even F1.8 will give to sufficient DOF. A 24-70 F2.8 or a 70-200 F2.8 used at F2.8, will let you increase the speed more than 6 times over F7.1, so you can use ISO 100 outdoors.

Except for Macros, where DOF is extremely shallow and extra DOF is preferred over diffraction free images, avoid using apertures of more than F8 in normal shooting. The exceptions are situations where the light is extremely bright and lower shooting speed is desirable. In that case it is better to use higher F stops, rather than blow the highlights.
 

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
Read this, it's good for you. https://photographylife.com/iso-shutter-speed-and-aperture-for-beginners

I've shot hummingbirds in flight and not felt the need to get up to 1/4000s, so that's the heart of your problem, as has been said. Aperture? At 29mm you're going to get everything from 5 feet to infinity in focus at f14, and only need to shoot at 1/60s or better to prevent movement and could likely render just about any movement unseeable at 1/500s (guess).

Get a handle on exactly what each of those 3 settings does for you and then work from the most important factor to the least for the shot.
 

boofhead

Senior Member
Thanks everyone! I didn't set the aperture as I was in S mode and the camera adjusted aperture for me (I was surprised to see f/14 in the EXIF data as it was f/7.1 on the actual camera). The photo shown was in S mode and was an example of how high I had to set the ISO to take a photo that didn't give me the 'subject is too dark' message. It's not the kind of photos I usually take, it was just an example for this thread :)I only ever use A mode and I have no problems with that-- I'm only asking this question about 'subject too dark' because it only happens in the S mode and I was surprised it was happening on a bright sunny day. Plus I wanted to practise with S mode for the weekend but will stick with my A mode! Thanks for all the replies, I appreciate the time taken to reply!
 

aroy

Senior Member
Thanks everyone! I didn't set the aperture as I was in S mode and the camera adjusted aperture for me (I was surprised to see f/14 in the EXIF data as it was f/7.1 on the actual camera). The photo shown was in S mode and was an example of how high I had to set the ISO to take a photo that didn't give me the 'subject is too dark' message. It's not the kind of photos I usually take, it was just an example for this thread :)I only ever use A mode and I have no problems with that-- I'm only asking this question about 'subject too dark' because it only happens in the S mode and I was surprised it was happening on a bright sunny day. Plus I wanted to practise with S mode for the weekend but will stick with my A mode! Thanks for all the replies, I appreciate the time taken to reply!

Check if you have set ISO to "Auto ISO". I used fixed ISO, mostly 100 outdoors and 400-800 indoors. In S mode, especially with default "Auto ISO", some settings increase/decrease the ISO and then the Aperture, while other setting do the opposite. Another setting to take care of is the Aperture set on the body before switching to "S" mode from "A" mode. At least in my D3300, the Aperture set is the minimum that the auto ISO uses, it will increase the aperture if the scene is too bright, but will not go below it if it is dark. That must the problem in your case. Here is what I think the settings were
. The aperture set at 14, before switching to "S"
. ISO set at "Auto" by default
. Max ISO set to the default 6400

To be doubly sure, just check all the setting, and then switch off all the "Auto" settings.
 

boofhead

Senior Member
thanks again everyone. My Auto ISO was set to off, I've switched that functionality on and will play around some more-- a test photo I took seemed to work but now I need to practise with the same action shots. I went to my event on the weekend, before I turned on Auto ISO. I mostly used A mode (and those photos are okay) but played around in S mode. When I was indoors I took photos of speakers in three modes (A, S and auto-no-flash). The best results were the auto. A mode was okay but they weren't sharp. S mode however resulted in really dark images. I changed ISO values and shutter speeds based on advice I'd read and what information my course provided but again the images were very dark and of course noisy (awful looking) with the high ISO. The day is a bit of a blur now but I made sure to to try the S mode guideline settings my photography teacher gave us (which is also what I've read in photography advice articles). Again, dark photos :( But now that I have Auto ISO switched on, I will try to get the same kinds of shots and compare. Thank you for all your help!
 

boofhead

Senior Member
thanks! Your comparison shots are really helpful and I'm going to do that for myself in different lighting conditions and environments. So far I am getting the really crap dark images in low indoor lighting on S mode, despite changing the shutter speed and ISO to suggested values. I did take good pics in A mode of an indoor fashion show, but the auditorium with the low lighting on presenters gave me horrid photos in S mode. I'd love to be able to share some of my pictures to show examples but can't because of privacy issues (they all involve people subjects). I have an event on in a fortnight where again I will be taking photos of cooking action and performers outdoors and indoors-- hopefully Auto ISO will help me out! Thank you all again, you've all been very helpful :D
 

egosbar

Senior Member
if your in shutter priority you can still set aperture , just lower your shutter speed down and your aperture will widen , i use it the opposite way using aperture priority , i adjust aperture and iso to obtain the shutter speed i need to equal my focal length , i hate auto iso , where possible shoot it at 100 , i try not to go over 400 with my d7100 but will go to 1600 if i really need to

you have to understand what will happen to the image as your settings change , ie wide apertures = less depth of field , high iso = increased noise , slow shutter speed (less then focal length for inexpereinced photographer) = blur
if your subject isnt moving try to shoot about double your focal length , keep iso low as possible , then know what the aperture will do to your image , if you want all in focus (f16 etc) then one of the other two must suffer
 

boofhead

Senior Member
gahhh... so I went to a lecture yesterday and took photos of the speaker (using my 55mm kit lens, I was seated in a good position up front). I followed advice given here, even tried with Auto ISO on but still got blurred images in S mode (and some in A mode) :( I was lucky to get a few good shots but that was a matter of timing because I took the pics when the speaker was pausing. But most of the time he was moving his hands when talking, and his hands are very blurred in my pics. I'll play around some more and start from scratch getting back to basics. I think I'll have to meet up with a photographer chum for a one-on-one tutorial to show what I mean! The shots I took outdoors on S mode (with Auto ISO on) are okay. But the indoor shots inside the lecture theatre which was well lit, urghhhhh. Frustrating, but I'll get there!Also in my photography course, the teacher was teaching us in A mode (which is fine with me as I use that). He said increasing ISO is not to get you brighter pictures, it's to essentially give you a faster shutter speed. And if you want to increase your brightness in photos (like the shadows) then increase your exposure compensation values. But I've read conflicting advice. Then again his published photos following his own advice really are beautiful and well done (award winning, etc etc).
 
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