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  1. #21
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    SkvLTD's Avatar

    Re: Do you miss a built in flash on the D500?

    What still puzzles me is that CLS works off of IR port, but needs the pop-up interface in the menus to work - so why Nikon entirely omits this in pro bodies is a complete mystery to me to this day.


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    skvoraltdphoto
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  2. #22
    Senior Member
    Bikerbrent's Avatar

    Re: Do you miss a built in flash on the D500?

    Quote Originally Posted by SkvLTD View Post
    What still puzzles me is that CLS works off of IR port, but needs the pop-up interface in the menus to work - so why Nikon entirely omits this in pro bodies is a complete mystery to me to this day.
    Nikon probably figures if you can afford the pro bodies, you can afford their remote flash trigger systems.
    Thanks/Like LouCioccio Thanks/liked this post
     
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  3. #23
    Senior Member

    Re: Do you miss a built in flash on the D500?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bikerbrent View Post
    Nikon probably figures if you can afford the pro bodies, you can afford their remote flash trigger systems.
    That was my thought as well. Follow the money, as they say!


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  4. #24
    Senior Member
    NealB's Avatar

    Re: Do you miss a built in flash on the D500?

    The lack of a popup flash never was a concern when I bought my D500 a couple weeks ago. Now that I think about it I maybe used the popup flash on my D7100 twice in 3 years and never have used the one on my D810. When I need a flash I always reach for my my hot shoe flash. The lack of the popup flash is something that should be considered before purchasing by a lot of folks.

  5. #25
    Senior Member
    Rick M's Avatar

    Re: Do you miss a built in flash on the D500?

    I've always thought it's idiotic that "pro" bodies don't have a pop-up flash. I have the same frustration with Olympus, in fact, I bought a cheaper body for it and the "fun" factor it affords. There is absolutely no loss in including them, the form factor is already there. A quick shot against the sun proves the point. Does anyone feel less "professional" with them?
    Last edited by Rick M; 06-15-2017 at 02:54 AM.
    Rick

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  6. #26
    Senior Member
    Challenge Team
    Blacktop's Avatar

    Re: Do you miss a built in flash on the D500?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick M View Post
    I've always thought it's idiotic that "pro" bodies don't have a pop-up flash. I have the same frustration with Olympus, in fact, I bought a cheaper body for it and the "fun" factor it affords. There is absolutely no loss in including them, the form factor is already there. A quick shot against the sun proves the point. Does anyone feel less "professional" with them?
    I don't know about that, but chicks don't dig pop up flashes.
    Last edited by Blacktop; 06-15-2017 at 07:40 AM.
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  7. #27
    Senior Member
    spb_stan's Avatar

    Re: Do you miss a built in flash on the D500?

    A few points:
    "The form factor is already there".....Well no it is not, there is a larger pentaprism that causes the bump, one of the really nice features, a Dx camera with a big bright VF that would not allow a popup flash also unless increasing the size of the body. Better VF trumps puny pop up flash any day

    "CLS uses the IR port", actually it does not use it any more than non-CLS, CLS works with a series or call and reply light pulses that occur so close in time to the exposure flash that we don't notice them. When I was designing a RF controller back in 2008 when the D90 came out, I set up a phototransistor detector and measured the pulses for timing, pulse position in the pulse train and duration so I could duplicate the control system with RF instead of with light. It is a complex series of pulses the triggers each group independently and measures the return from the subject using the regular metering sensor, not the IR port which would not have the sensitivity or DR to be practical. After triggering each group separately another pulse train is sent coded for each group with power calculated values. And finally the pulse that triggers the remote flashes to fire in the power setting just previously sent. This all happens before the shutter opens which allows the exposure command flash to not contribute to the exposure if you set the onboard flash for that. I was able to build a RF system that worked great without the flash on the camera raised at all. Pocket Wizard did something similar 3 years later so I guess I was the first to create an RF system.

    If someone needs controlled light on a subject they really need to control the beam in more ways than the fixed position of the popup, making the popup only useful for close in snap shots, without a lens hood(which casts wide shadows on the bottom of the frame) which makes it pretty useless for any serious shot. A better alternative is just use your smart phone for those very casual snap shots, they are perfect for that. You do not spend $5k on a body and pro lens for snap shots that are easier done with a smart phone. A D3300 is a much better use of the money, with kit lens for casual snap shots. Everyone who is not shooting action sports in burst mode finds as their camera level increases their shot count drops, due to a number of factors, but one of them is more time and more deliberate planning goes into more serious shots so a landscaper might come home with less than a dozen where when they started out with a D3000 or D5000, they probably were shooting 300 shots in the same setting. The files were small, the effort to get the shot low, and hope was more a factor that was not when they became more masters of their equipment so shots were less luck and a lot more intentional results.
    A D500 might be a great snap shot camera but why? The same images can be had for a great deal less money for casual snap shots. The difference is when you graduate to wanting more detailed control of the shot. That is why experienced shooters almost never have need for a popup flash, it is one unused item gone that took valuable space where a larger pentaprism should go, and 1 less thing to break accidentally.
    Flash and creative use of it has more impact on image quality and story telling ability than any camera body can have. Light, and shadow is all the photographer has to create with, it is his paint brushes and oils, so if one is limited in funds, like every one of us is to various degrees, the absolute best place to use those funds is lighting and learning to use it, and not camera bodies which have a surprisingly low importance in determining the quality of an image or its ability to tell a compelling story. By the time someone moves to a D810 or D500, lets hope they needed it only after having the lighting skills already well developed or else they wasted good money. Yes, a D500 is a GREAT camera...but so what...it is 10% of an image. A D3300 and good use of light, and shadow to tell a story will beat out a D810/D4 every single time without deliberate control or use of the light and shadows. The rush to high ISO undermines creative use of shadows I find but that is the popular trend. Portraiture of the 30s and 40s when ISO was 24 or 64 was the era of the great portrait photography and why those images are still found in gallery walls today, they certainly were not hampered by poor light sensitivity. Even action sports has little improved images over 40 years ago.
    Thanks/Like SkvLTD Thanks/liked this post
     

  8. #28
    Senior Member
    jc32750's Avatar

    Re: Do you miss a built in flash on the D500?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camera Fun View Post
    Do you miss not having a built in flash on the D500? Just wondering if the 500 might be a future option for replacing my D7000. I don't use the flash a lot but I like having it in some situations. I'm a one camera person so I would pass my D7000 along to either my son or daughter.
    I don't miss it at all. I love using the 35mm 1.8 lens for BD parties but I did buy a small flash for a trip I took to Africa to use if I wanted to at night of the friends I was with. I bought the SB-300 for around $140.00 or so from Amazon. To me the 35mm lens is best for indoor low light but the SB-300 is an option and if I ever move in the direction where I would need larger flash or a full frame camera for portraits then I would purchase good flash(s).

  9. #29
    Senior Member
    mikew's Avatar

    Re: Do you miss a built in flash on the D500?

    It would be nice to have for the occasional close up shot but i never thought of it as a deal breaker.
    Mike

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  10. #30
    Senior Member
    lokatz's Avatar

    Re: Do you miss a built in flash on the D500?

    Got a 7100 and a 500, and I beg to differ from most posters so far:

    If I only had the 500, I would terribly miss the pop-up flash. I don't believe I've ever used it as a main flash, but I've used it frequently in commander mode to trigger one or two flash units I placed farther away. Even in nature photography, e.g. when shooting flowers, doing that can be very helpful. Wouldn't want to spend the money on wireless remotes and wouldn't want to carry that extra weight, so pop-up is the way to go. Fortunately, my 7100 is a fine camera for that type of shooting, anyway.
    Lothar Katz

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