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  1. #111
    Senior Member
    mikew's Avatar

    re: Newbie's (blackstar) Moon Shot questions and helps

    I think it is the ISO, auto ISO is great tool in the right situation, as you had control of everything for this shot auto ISO was not needed,i use it most of the time but its for situations with changing light but i want control of the shutter speed and aperture


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    Mike



    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

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  2. #112
    Staff
    Super Mod
    hark's Avatar

    re: Newbie's (blackstar) Moon Shot questions and helps

    Quote Originally Posted by blackstar View Post
    Hi,

    I'm back with some experimental shots. The two photos below were shot at the same scene (indoor with artificial light w/o flash, focus point: yellow flower) and one-after-another timing but in different modes and exposures. I wonder what factor(s) would cause the second photo to be messed up with all tiny dark bumps? Any hint? Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by blackstar View Post
    Thanks, Mike. I can enlarge now. Maybe you can too (click the very bottom of the image). The first photo was shot in P mode and second Auto mode. Auto ISO control and AF-S were set. Don't know why different iso were used in P and Auto modes? If that's the factor, can it be concluded that P mode shot is better than Auto mode?
    Based on the EXIF data, the second image is about 1/3 stop brighter than the first. Since I've never used Auto or Program modes, I don't know what criteria each one uses to determine exposure (1/25" shutter speed for a 48mm focal length). It's possible the mode for the first image doesn't factor in the relationship between the focal length used and the shutter speed. Many people wouldn't have tried to use such a slow shutter speed of 1/25" like the first images uses.

    In the second image, the dark bumps are noise due to the ISO being 11400. But if I were to use one, I've heard Program mode tends to be a little better. This is where understanding the Exposure Triangle and how the aperture, shutter speed, and ISO all interact to deliver the final image.
    Cindy
    Flickr
    and My 2020 Thread

    Where the Spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art
    -- Leonardo da Vinci



  3. #113
    Senior Member
    Horoscope Fish's Avatar

    re: Newbie's (blackstar) Moon Shot questions and helps

    Quote Originally Posted by blackstar View Post
    Thanks, Mike. I can enlarge now. Maybe you can too (click the very bottom of the image). The first photo was shot in P mode and second Auto mode. Auto ISO control and AF-S were set. Don't know why different iso were used in P and Auto modes? If that's the factor, can it be concluded that P mode shot is better than Auto mode?
    I don't think you're going to find exact answers to these questions since those answers probably have to do with the algorithm(s) used by the camera to determine exposure settings.

    In Program mode you chose the aperture/shutter-speed combination. In full Auto, the camera selected the aperture/shutter-speed combination. Both modes allowed Auto-ISO to control the brightness of the overall image in relation to exposure. That's easy enough.

    Here's where I start making assumptions...

    I'm thinking when you chose the slower shutter-speed of 1/25 Auto-ISO chose the lowest possible setting to give the shot an acceptable overall brightness. In full Auto mode the camera chose a combination of exposure settings, including a shutter speed safe enough, most likely, for a steady hand-held shot at a moderate aperture, one small enough for a reasonable depth of field based on subject distance that still allowed for the previously mentioned reasonable shutter speed. Once the algorithm determined what exposure settings to use (in this case f/5.3 @ 1/80) Auto ISO determined the lowest possible ISO to use that would ensure an acceptable overall brightness to the image. Since you didn't lower the maximum ISO Auto ISO could choose from (say, ISO 400) the algorithm went with IS0 11,400 to ensure a reasonably bright image. It's all a big balancing act.

    Personally, I don't think either mode is better than another since they essentially do the same thing. Left to its own devices regarding exposure your camera will do its best to take a "middle path". It doesn't make creative decisions about things like highlights vs shadows; it meters for Middle Grey (aka "18% Grey", "15% Grey", whatever you want to call it) and attempts to balance out all the settings it has to work with so you wind up with a shot you will, most likely, be at least reasonably happy with. If you want to start taking more control of how your images look straight out the camera, you'll have to learn about exposure, how the meter in your camera "thinks" about exposure, how to compensate for how it "thinks" and the different meting modes themselves. This is not hard to do since the meter is a pretty simple device and once you understand it always want to take that Middle Path, working with it becomes really easy.
    ~ Paul
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  4. #114
    Senior Member

    re: Newbie's (blackstar) Moon Shot questions and helps

    Thanks, Mike, Cindy, and Paul.

    The purpose of this experiment is to compare shots between Auto mode and P mode hoping to decide which mode performs better conclusively. I assume (double-checked) in P mode, camera is in charge of speed and aperture combo together with auto iso, only in Flexible P mode, you can select the combo instead of the camera does. In my experiment, I didn't use flexible P mode and both shots taken from on a tripod. It seems all agree the annoying tiny bumps come from high iso noise. So maybe P mode could be called super auto mode? BTW, from the location designation on the Mode dial, P, A, S, M modes are all placed each to other, but Auto mode is far and gapped away from them. Hence if P mode can be conclusively (guess it's not according to Paul's comment) better than Auto mode, I would put mode dial in 1st mode group (i.e., PSAM). For using flash, I can always manual it.

  5. #115
    Senior Member
    Bikerbrent's Avatar

    re: Newbie's (blackstar) Moon Shot questions and helps

    The fact that you can manually control shutter speed or aperture in Flexible P mode make it far superior to full auto mode.
    Brent: Poway, CA
    D7200, D200, F100
    Tokina 12-24mm
    Nikon 18-200mm
    Tokina 28-70mm f2.6-2.8
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    Tokina 100mm f2.8 Macro
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  6. #116
    Senior Member

    re: Newbie's (blackstar) Moon Shot questions and helps

    Hi Biker,

    In flexible P mode, you can select aperture AND speed as a combo changed from the "programmed" combo. You won't be able to change either aperture or speed ALONE. I assume in either P or FP mode, the bottom line is still on the camera's software algorithm that stays to accomplish a balance of exposure. And yes, there is so much to comprehend this subject of photography in general and hence I reckon I will keep it as only my hobby for the rest of my life... and hope able to enjoy a little during the process other than all the hard learning

  7. #117
    Senior Member

    re: Newbie's (blackstar) Moon Shot questions and helps

    Newbie's (blackstar) Moon Shot questions and helps
    DOF experiment:

    Newbie's (blackstar) Moon Shot questions and helps-2020-01-25-11.19.39s.jpg

    Newbie's (blackstar) Moon Shot questions and helps-2020-01-25-11.20.41s.jpg

  8. #118
    Senior Member

    re: Newbie's (blackstar) Moon Shot questions and helps

    Newbie's (blackstar) Moon Shot questions and helps
    Hi, Made another moon shot experiment and like to hear any comment: (the flat and detail-less moon surface caused by over-exposure?)

    Newbie's (blackstar) Moon Shot questions and helps-2020-01-29-20.39.01ss.jpeg
    Last edited by blackstar; 02-06-2020 at 07:08 AM.

  9. #119
    Senior Member
    Dawg Pics's Avatar

    re: Newbie's (blackstar) Moon Shot questions and helps

    Yes, overexposed.
    "Remember to gaze up at the night sky because there is a little bit of the cosmos in each of us."


    Um yeahhhh, I shoot a lot of pics of my dogs.
    D500 (DOB 05/26/17), D300, D80, SB-800. RIP-D100

  10. #120
    Senior Member
    Bikerbrent's Avatar

    re: Newbie's (blackstar) Moon Shot questions and helps

    Very much overexposed. A good starting value is f/16 @ 1/125 ISO 100. You used f/6.3 @ 1/2 ISO 200
    Thanks/Like nestor.stura Thanks/liked this post
     
    Brent: Poway, CA
    D7200, D200, F100
    Tokina 12-24mm
    Nikon 18-200mm
    Tokina 28-70mm f2.6-2.8
    Nikon 80-200mm f2.8
    Sigma 150-600mm
    Nikon 50 AF f1.8
    Tokina 100mm f2.8 Macro
    Nikon SB800





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