File order problem

hark

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Yesterday I took photos during Worship using both my D7200 and D750. My D7200 was on a tripod in the back of the Sanctuary. I used my D750 for a few different types of shots, and this is the body that left me with something unusual.

The first images from my D750 were from the front of the Sanctuary without flash. No flash is allowed inside during Worship. During the service, someone asked me if I could take pics of the cake out in Fellowship Hall so I grabbed this body which was ready for flash shots for later anyway. So I used flash for the cake pics.

When Worship was winding down, I put my D7200 and tripod away knowing I would be taking more flash photos with my D750 after the service. However, during the Postlude as the bagpipe player was exiting down the aisle, I used my D750 WITHOUT flash for a few photos. Then after the service, I took more flash photos.

So the order I took pics was no flash, flash, no flash, flash. I used Aperture Priority for the no flash photos and Manual Mode when using flash.

My card slots are RAW+Jpeg Fine. I loaded both card onto my PC. BOTH are listing the files out of order. ALL the flash photos are first followed by all the no flash photos. Why? No matter whether they are in the folder as Details, List, or Icons, they won't display in the order they were shot. Normally I don't mix flash and non-flash photos and don't recall ever running into this. Since the first images I shot didn't have flash, why wouldn't those display first? Is this normal?

Unfortunately I reformatted both cards before I realized this so can't go back and look at the folders/images on the cards.

file order.png
 

Fred Kingston

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Without ALL the data in your screenshot, it's hard to tell what's going on. Looks like your folder is sorting in Date/Time order and NOT in Name order...
 

hark

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Without ALL the data in your screenshot, it's hard to tell what's going on. Looks like your folder is sorting in Date/Time order and NOT in Name order...

Well...your response made me look deeper. The menu bar wasn't showing up, and once I enabled it, I could choose a different way to sort the images. I switched it to sort by date rather than name, and now they display in order. I have no idea why they wouldn't display in order by name, but the change corrected the problem. Thanks! :encouragement:
 

nickt

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I see you found an answer. I have a different file view set. I'm still curious on the underscores. I don't know much about using different color spaces.
 

hark

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You have some files beginning with an underscore, putting them to the top of the abc order. A quick search says that could be from changing the color space.
https://photo.stackexchange.com/que...enames-with-an-underscore-for-example-dscxxxx

I see you found an answer. I have a different file view set. I'm still curious on the underscores. I don't know much about using different color spaces.

Nick, that is probably what caused the problem. I switched to Adobe RGB a while back. I also changed my U1 and U2 settings both which utilize BBF. But I didn't think about switching the color space when using Manual Mode. So that's probably why. After changing my color space, I noticed the underscore. However, I didn't notice some of the files here had an underscore while others didn't. Thanks for picking up on that! :)

I will make sure I change my color space for Manual Mode in all my bodies. Usually I don't use Shutter Priority but guess it would need to be changed, too. The only reason why I changed it was because of an Adobe update to Camera RAW. Suddenly I was clipping blues, reds, and greens so much that it was difficult to correct without raising the blacks too much. I do print a number of my images so using Adobe RGB as my color space in camera is helpful in that respect. I haven't noticed much of any issue when I upload. Supposedly the internet converts images to sRGB but haven't had any problems with it. Thanks again!
 

PapaST

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I changed my naming convention to help me keep things organized. For instance a picture from my D600 would be BM6_XXXX, one from my D7100 would be BM7_XXXX, one from my D300 would be BM3_XXXX, so on and so on. BM are my initials in case I mix my photos with someone elses and then the numeral afterwards tells me which camera it came from.
 

hark

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I see you found an answer. I have a different file view set. I'm still curious on the underscores. I don't know much about using different color spaces.

I went in a looked at my color space. Every mode I use is set to Adobe RGB (Aperture Priority, Shutter Priority, Manual Mode, U1 & U2 which are BBF) so I don't know why some files have underscores while others don't. When I have time, I will have to look at each individual mode to see what is listed for file naming. I know I've never changed the file names so thought all of them switched when I set the body for Adobe RGB. Apparently they didn't though. :confused:
 

Marcel

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You can edit your file names prefix. So even if you change from Adobe to Srgb, you can determine how the file names start with. I prefer have a different prefix for my different cameras.
 

nickt

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I checked my d7200. Snapped two shots, one in each color space. I do use my own prefix on this camera and I still got the leading underscore when I switched to adobe rgb. Looking closer, the underscore moves from after the prefix to the beginning of the file name even though I have a custom prefix. Ex: d72_1234.nef to _d721234.nef. Your files show the same pattern, I don't think its a random renaming with an underscore since it moved from one place to another. I'm betting your files actually are in the two different color spaces.

Next test. I opened my two files in Nikon Capture nx-d. The image details show one file as srgb and the underscored file as adobe rgb. So it knows. Wondering if it knows because of the underscore, I went in and renamed the files. It still knows, so its coded in the file somehow. The moving of the underscore is just for our convenience.

I would suggest to check your files and see if they are in different color spaces.

Now after all this, I still can't wrap my head around color space:confused:. Apparently it doesn't matter to me how the camera is set. I shoot raw only. Its coded in the file, but I read its ignored by non-Nikon software for raw files. I have been exporting srgb in LR and not having any problems.
 

Horoscope Fish

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I checked my d7200. Snapped two shots, one in each color space. I do use my own prefix on this camera and I still got the leading underscore when I switched to adobe rgb. Looking closer, the underscore moves from after the prefix to the beginning of the file name even though I have a custom prefix. Ex: d72_1234.nef to _d721234.nef. Your files show the same pattern, I don't think its a random renaming with an underscore since it moved from one place to another. I'm betting your files actually are in the two different color spaces.

Next test. I opened my two files in Nikon Capture nx-d. The image details show one file as srgb and the underscored file as adobe rgb. So it knows. Wondering if it knows because of the underscore, I went in and renamed the files. It still knows, so its coded in the file somehow. The moving of the underscore is just for our convenience.

I would suggest to check your files and see if they are in different color spaces.

Now after all this, I still can't wrap my head around color space:confused:. Apparently it doesn't matter to me how the camera is set. I shoot raw only. Its coded in the file, but I read its ignored by non-Nikon software for raw files. I have been exporting srgb in LR and not having any problems.
You are correct.

  • sRGB files use: _DSC1234
  • aRGB files use: DSC_1234
If you shoot raw, the color-profile you work in will be determined by your raw converter; in your case that's Lightroom, so your raw files will open using the ProPhoto color-profile (by default). When you're done processing the Export dialog in Lightroom will default to using the sRGB color-profile, but there's a drop down menu with a few other options:
.....
LR Export.jpg



Now, once you've converted a raw file to .jpg, that particular color-profile (or "color-space", if you prefer) is "baked in". I know you don't shoot .jpg BUT... If one day you were to shoot in, say, raw + .jpg for some reason the camera body will embed a color-profile (either sRGB or aRGB) into your .jpg's automatically because image files, like .jpg, require a color-profile.

I know Photoshop will allow me to convert a .jpg from one color-profile to another but... 1) I can't imagine why I'd need, or even want to do that and, 2) I don't know if Lightroom allows you to do that or not, though I imagine it would.
 
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hark

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I finally figured out the problem. Although I previously changed all my color space settings in camera to be Adobe RGB, I didn't save that change to the user settings for U1 and U2. So U1 and U2 were defaulting to sRGB. Now I changed them so all the files should display in order. Unfortunately it doesn't appear I can get rid of the underscore in front of the file names. That seems to be how Nikon (or Adobe) differentiates between sRGB and Adobe RGB.

And to @Horoscope Fish - I open my NEF's with PCC which defaults to ACR. I changed my color space there to Adobe RGB so my files automatically open that way. I don't use Lightroom much since I prefer ACR. Thanks for the info! :)
 

nickt

Senior Member
I finally figured out the problem. Although I previously changed all my color space settings in camera to be Adobe RGB, I didn't save that change to the user settings for U1 and U2. So U1 and U2 were defaulting to sRGB. Now I changed them so all the files should display in order. Unfortunately it doesn't appear I can get rid of the underscore in front of the file names. That seems to be how Nikon (or Adobe) differentiates between sRGB and Adobe RGB.
I stopped using my U's for important stuff. I always forget to save something. So I keep one set for basic shutter button focus in case I hand the camera to someone and the other U is just my everyday bbf settings that I'm very used to in case I need to take a quick shot when I'm not ready.

That was my take too on the file names, you are stuck with the underscore unless you rename on import. It ended up being a good clue about your U settings though.
 

hark

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I stopped using my U's for important stuff. I always forget to save something. So I keep one set for basic shutter button focus in case I hand the camera to someone and the other U is just my everyday bbf settings that I'm very used to in case I need to take a quick shot when I'm not ready.

That was my take too on the file names, you are stuck with the underscore unless you rename on import. It ended up being a good clue about your U settings though.

Both U1 and U2 are set up for BBF. I rarely use BBF because it exacerbates my trigger thumb issue. But I leave them set that way for times such as this. I sat on a step up front when the acolytes, flag bearer, and bagpipe player entered. They were walking towards me so U1 with Aperture Priority, AF-C, and BBF was perfect (no flash allowed during Worship). U2 is set the same except it's Manual Mode instead of Aperture Priority. Thanks for pointing out the underscore. That was the key to identifying the file issue! :)
 
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