Computer monitors and monitors for photography

Moab Man

Senior Member
@hark requested that I put something together discussing monitors relative to photo editing. This started when another member, MinnBen was having a problem with miss matched colors.

First let me say this is can be a very complex discussion with even more opinions. My intention is to keep it relatively simple so that people can understand it without it turning into a over the heads of many conversation about little nuances of this that or the other thing. So what comes after this follows the KISS model - keep it simple stupid.

First, Mac's - Those that know me know that I have no love for Apple, BUT credit is due for the monitors they buy build use, whatever it is. Their color display is awesome and reliable as a general rule. However, it's not like that comes cheap. Apple products do carry a premium price tag and their monitors are top notch and very much the standard for many a pro or semi-pro photographer.

Now, lets get into PC monitors. Computer monitors can be had for as cheap as $80 at times. The adage you get what you pay for is very true with monitors. Keeping it simple, the internet and web browsers work off of a color model of sRGB. This is a range of colors generally accepted as a standard for video games, web colors, general stuff. To put a numerical value to sRGB for the purpose of discussion we will assign a range of 10 - 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. This represents the full range of colors available in sRGB. However, not every monitor can display this full range. Cheaper monitors tend to display less than the full range. My one computer display, calibrated with a Spyder Pro calibrator, tweaks the software to correctly display colors and give an analysis of how many of the range of 10 colors in sRGB it can display. Here is that graphic and then I will explain further.

SRGB.jpg


This graphic is saying that after tweaking my display to correct color, in the sRGB color range my monitor can only display 79% of the sRGB color range, another better monitor I have rates higher - but it cost more. Using our KISS number range of 1-10 I'm only seeing 8 of the 10 colors. This means that when editing a photo shot in sRGB my MONITOR is not showing me all of the color range in the sRGB color range.



The other setting you commonly have in a camera is AdobeRGB. To assign a value, we will say that AdobeRGB has a color range of 100 - 1, 2, 3,... 100. This color range is far greater than sRGB and if you want to capture a greater range of color with the sutle transitions in color and tone then AdobeRGB is great, but if your monitor can't display it then your color range problem is further exacerbated. Looking at the same monitor relative to AdobeRGB is the graphic that follows.

AdobeRGB.jpg


This graphic is telling us that my monitor can only display 59% of the AdobeRGB color range. On our KISS number scale of 100, my monitor can display 60 of the 100 colors and can not display 40 of the 100. This leaves quite a bit of color lost. Factor in the accuracy of color production in combination with the limits on what the monitor can display and things can get really ugly.


What monitor do I need? What a loaded question that can spark huge amounts of debate. If you are showing your images only on the web or the place you are having images printed are using sRGB as a color profile then there is no need to invest in a wide gamut 100% AdobeRGB capable monitor. In this situation you would strive to find a monitor that ideally is 100% sRGB.

Taking your color range up a notch, wanting a fuller range of color, opens a whole new set of issues. AdobeRGB has this broader range of color but you get what you pay for to own a 100% AdobeRGB monitor. It is not unusual to pay north of $500 for this kind of monitor. But another problem presents itself. To take advantage of this greater color you need to print the image and you need a printer or print resource that works in this color range. As for the web, it doesn't display AdobeRGB so it has to be converted to sRGB. Translation, colors are being stripped from the image when going from AdobeRGB to sRGB and then you have the limitation of how much can your monitor display.

Conclusion...

If your images will be displayed on the internet or printed through an outlet using sRGB as their color profile then research and invest in a monitor as close to 100% of sRGB as you can.

If you're of the opinion that I don't care how much effort or dollars it costs, I want full AdobeRGB prints then do your research for a monitor that can display 100% AdobeRGB and a print source that works with this profile.

A final note, shooting in a AdobeRGB and posting them to the web, which operates in sRGB, can have really negative effects because there is a good bit lost in translation and the web will assign a best guess.

I hope this helps and that member don't try to over-complicate this for general consumption. If you really want to get into it deeper then do your research. It is easy to get lost in the complexity of it all. I spent many months researching this to wrap my brain around it all before selecting a wide gamut 100% AdobeRGB monitor. It can be a lot to digest, but knowing that my color reproduction matches my screen is worth it to me before I turn images over to a client.

Here's an article I found that will take this up a little bit more technically.

https://fstoppers.com/pictures/adobergb-vs-srgb-3167
 
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hark

Administrator
Staff member
Super Mod
Thank you, Moab Man! This is full of excellent info...and is something I hadn't known in such complete detail. This will benefit many people, myself included, when I am ready to buy a new computer. :encouragement:
 

WayneF

Senior Member
A final note, shooting in a AdobeRGB and posting them to the web, which operates in sRGB, can have really negative effects because there is a good bit lost in translation and the web will assign a best guess.

Right, AdobeRGB always seemed infeasible to me, due to incompatibility with the web, or with printing photos at the usual places, or with emailing the image to others.

But I would suggest buying an IPS screen, instead of the normal TN screen The best monitor I ever had is my first IPS. Mighty impressive, first look was a real WOW, good colors, good blacks, etc, and this one was less expensive than most IPS.
Amazon.com: Dell S2340M 23-Inch Screen LED-lit Monitor: Computers & Accessories
 
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hark

Administrator
Staff member
Super Mod
Right, AdobeRGB always seemed unfeasible to me, due to incompatibility with the web or with printing photos at the usual places, or with emailing the image to others.

But I would suggest buying an IPS screen, instead of the normal TN screen The best monitor I ever had is my first IPS. Mighty impressive, first look was a real WOW, good colors, good blacks, etc, and this one was less expensive than most IPS.
Amazon.com: Dell S2340M 23-Inch Screen LED-lit Monitor: Computers & Accessories

Thanks, Wayne. I will let my fingers do some walking though Google to understand the differences between them! ;)
 

Moab Man

Senior Member
WayneF is absolutely correct. IPS costs more and it allows for a better range of viewing without shifting the what the image looks like. My non-IPS monitor there is a specific height angle to view it at its most accurate.
 

Dawg Pics

Senior Member
My iMac 11,2 21.5 inch is an LED backlit display using IPS technology. Mid 2010 model.
You have to look for that information. The new monitors scream it.

Yes, it needs to be calibrated.
 

Krs_2007

Senior Member
The site that Wayne listed is the resource I used when I bought my Dell 24 IPS and I will tell you it was night and day difference between it and my old TN.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 

cwgrizz

Senior Member
Challenge Team
Thanks Moab Man and Wayne. I may be talking through my hat on this, but if you want to see how TN monitors color is displayed, just take a lap top with the usual display and move the screen back and forth to different angles. The colors displayed change, darker to lighter, etc. That is where I have a problem using the laptop to process my pictures. A TN monitor even if not the laptop screen will not display correctly to you when it is too high or low. Another thing that messes with the display when processing photos, is the light in the room. Sunlight, fluorescent, incandescent and how it shines on the monitor can really mess with what you are seeing. I think even with a great monitor there are other aspects that need to be considered to take full advantage of it.
 

hark

Administrator
Staff member
Super Mod
Thanks Moab Man and Wayne. I may be talking through my hat on this, but if you want to see how TN monitors color is displayed, just take a lap top with the usual display and move the screen back and forth to different angles. The colors displayed change, darker to lighter, etc. That is where I have a problem using the laptop to process my pictures. A TN monitor even if not the laptop screen will not display correctly to you when it is too high or low. Another thing that messes with the display when processing photos, is the light in the room. Sunlight, fluorescent, incandescent and how it shines on the monitor can really mess with what you are seeing. I think even with a great monitor there are other aspects that need to be considered to take full advantage of it.

And this is exactly the problem I'm having with my laptop display. Altering the angle even in the slightest changes the contrast, and I don't know what the correct viewing angle should be. Even the color saturation changes. All I can do is to print a photo then try to adjust my display angle to match it. I was considering buying a new printer but decided I need to look into a new computer instead as it is something I will use everyday--the decision comes after reading the info posted by [MENTION=11881]Moab Man[/MENTION] on monitors. :encouragement:
 

hark

Administrator
Staff member
Super Mod
One quick question...since sRGB seems to be more universally accepted (more print shops calibrated for sRGB) than AdobeRGB and is better for online viewing, is that the setting people use while editing in Photoshop or Lightroom? And do people who print their own photos at home tend to stick with AdobeRGB in Photoshop and Lightroom?
 

ryan20fun

Senior Member
One quick question...since sRGB seems to be more universally accepted (more print shops calibrated for sRGB) than AdobeRGB and is better for online viewing, is that the setting people use while editing in Photoshop or Lightroom?
I edit in ProPhoto, I want to keep as much colour info as possible before conversion to the output format.

HTH
 

Moab Man

Senior Member
It depends. If the purpose of my shot is to capture a full range of color (usually that's a specific project) and take the time to send it to a printer that works in AdobeRGB then I will work in AdobeRGB. For most things I will work in sRGB. So it depends on where I'm going with the end product.
 

Moab Man

Senior Member
And this is exactly the problem I'm having with my laptop display. Altering the angle even in the slightest changes the contrast, and I don't know what the correct viewing angle should be. Even the color saturation changes. All I can do is to print a photo then try to adjust my display angle to match it. I was considering buying a new printer but decided I need to look into a new computer instead as it is something I will use everyday--the decision comes after reading the info posted by @Moab Man on monitors. :encouragement:

If your computer is running your programs just fine, and you don't need/want a computer purchase you could always purchase a monitor and plug it into the external monitor port.
 

hark

Administrator
Staff member
Super Mod
Here is a somewhat related question: once a monitor is calibrated by whatever means, how should Photoshop's Color Management settings be set? If we want to calibrate for sRGB, what changes should be made to the default settings? I believe these are PCC's default settings for Color Management.

In addition to the Working Spaces changes, what about the Color Management Policies, Conversion Options, Advanced Controls, and any other boxes to be checked or unchecked?

PCC Color Management.jpg
 

hark

Administrator
Staff member
Super Mod
@hark that is how I have mine setup for general purposes.

Do you mean yours is set to the default like is pictured above? I'm asking because I tried changing some of the settings last night. Here's what happened:

Last night I changed one of PCC's Color Management settings to Gamma 2.2 and a couple other changes I saw on a Lynda.com video. I even changed my default in Bridge (which I think was set to Adobe and not sRGB). Suddenly my files became a nightmare to edit! I had trouble setting my Whites and Blacks, and even when I did get things set, the colors, shadows, contrast, etc. looked terrible.

I looked at my Spyder image to see if that changed, and for some reason, it listed the sRBG as being 100% although it was 76% before I made the changes. I never switched my computer's profile--only the Color Management settings within PCC and Bridge--but it somehow affected my computer overall. I made the choice to revert to the default settings because even when printing from outside labs, my colors, contrast, etc. tend to be reproduced pretty well.
 
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