Lightroom + NIK plug-ins workflow

This may have already been covered elsewhere, but I didn't find anything in a search. I apologize in advance for the length of this post, but I'm REALLY confused, and I've received no assistance on my inquiries to Google/NIK. I'm still fairly new to photography and post-processing, so keep that in mind.

I use Lightroom 5, and I recently purchased the entire NIK collection plug-ins for LR. I also have Photomatix Pro. I've started using the NIK plug-ins, and really like what I can do with them! However, I'm confused about what the "best practices" are with regards to workflow, and a couple other things.

I've watched every tutorial I can find on the NIK software, and all the ones I've seen involve using the NIK software with Photoshop and using layers and "smart objects" I know what layers are, but I don't have Photoshop, don't know how to use it, don't know if I really "need" it, and have no idea what is meant by "smart objects." But I digress... I've seen no good explanation of the recommended workflow, in detail, with Lightroom.

NIK recommends the following workflow, in order:

1. RAW presharpening using Sharpener Pro 3
2. Noise reduction using Dfine 2
3. Adjust color controls and light with Viveza 2
4. Filter enhancements using Color Efex Pro 4
5. Convert to B&W using Silver Efex Pro 2
6. Output sharpening using Sharpener Pro 3

If Analog Efex Pro 2 is used, they recommend using it at any point after Dfine 2, and if HDR Efex Pro 2 is used, they recommend using it immediately after Dfine 2.

So, that's essentially the order I've been using, however, I'm still confused about the following:

First, if I use the NIK stuff and since the NIK stuff does nearly everything, what should I be doing in Lightroom anymore? I've typically been doing Camera profile correction, turning all sharpening and noise reduction to "0" (since those steps will be done in the NIK plug-ins), bumping up the "Clarity" and "Vibrance" a touch, if desired, adjusting white balance, and maybe mild color correction prior to step 1 above. Is this right, wrong, or neither? Is there any reason why those steps will hinder anything done in one or more of the NIK steps above? My thoughts are that I should make some of those adjustments in LR first because as soon as you adjust in any NIK plug-in, the file is no longer RAW (it becomes TIFF as soon as you adjust in NIK and reimport back into LR), and you lose some ability to bring out washed out highlight detail or shadow detail. Is that a valid assumption? Otherwise, if I'm using all the NIK plug-ins, what purpose besides cataloging / exporting and lens distortion correction does LR serve anymore, and what is left for LR to do?

Secondly, if I'm using multiple bracketed exposures to create an HDR, should I first do lens distortion corrections in LR (since I can no longer use auto lens profiles once it's no longer a RAW file) and do steps 1 & 2 TO EACH of the 3 to 7 bracketed images before importing into HDR Efex Pro (or Photomatix Pro)?

Third, when I adjust anything in LR, I realize I need to select the option "Edit copy using Lightroom adjustments" before editing in one of the NIK plug-ins, otherwise it edits the original RAW file and I lose the adjustments I just made in LR. However, every time you save adjustments you make in any of the NIK plug-ins, it sends the adjusted image back to LR. If I wish to immediately edit the same image in another NIK plug-in without making any further LR adjustments, do I also select "Edit copy using Lightroom adjustments" or "Edit original?" By "Edit original," does "original" mean it's going to revert back to the original RAW file, or that it's going to edit the TIFF you just edited in a previous NIK plug-in? What exactly is meant by "original" here? I don't want to keep making copies of the same image as I go from one NIK step to the next.

I realize some of this is probably flexible in the order you can use. I also realize you don't always use all the above steps, depending on what you want to do; the steps above just illustrates the workflow if you plan to use all the tools, which obviously is the exception. Regardless, I'm not interested in "good enough;" I want to learn how to get the most out of my images and therefore want to use the best practices.

Again, I apologize for the long, tedious post, but I've found no good explanation of the above and I suffer from "analysis paralysis!" I really appreciate any assistance anyone can provide.

Thanks!

No help here, but following....

I will say that... I use a lot of software... but Nik isn't one of them because everything it does can be done in LR...

I'm reminded of the beginning days of desktop publishing... and garrish graphic products that were produced... recall that they used 50 different typefaces...just because they were available... and certain folks felt that they had to use all of them... :friendly_wink:

FredKingston said:

I will say that... I use a lot of software... but Nik isn't one of them because everything it does can be done in LR...

Click to expand...

I don't disagree with what you're saying but by the same token this is akin to saying no one really needs a car since you can walk from LA to Boston. Both methods will get you from here to there, no arguing that, but the car will get you there in a fraction of the time and with a lot less effort expended. That is the point, really, of NIK Tools I think. And really... We can't blame the tool when a designer applies a dozen fonts where one should be used.

....

I didn't say he didn't need 'software'... and/or that the Nik software may or may not be more efficient...

If it's more efficient, only he can determine what will constitute "best practice" in his workflow...

It's pretty common for most photographic oriented software to overlap in feature set... He acknowledges that... Every time I've looked at NIK, it's always been from the standpoint of "what am I gaining"...

I imagine, if I'd never used LR... and owned NIK... I'd look at LR with the same intent.

Since the combination of various software programs could potentially create an unlimited variable with regard to "best practices"... I'm goin' with, "best practice will become a personal thing, based on the feature sets of the programs involved, and the needs/desires of the individual photographer."

IOW... there ain't no "best practice"

FredKingston said:

Nik isn't one of them because everything it does can be done in LR...

Click to expand...

Actually, that's not entirely true. The NIK plug-ins have a feature called "control points" that allow you do do more precise detailed adjustments to brightness, contrast, structure (fine detail), etc to only a select portion of the image without globally affecting the remainder of the image. Its noise reduction and sharpening is also far superior to what LR offers, and in my opinion, it ain't even close, as you can tailor the sharpening to the type of output you intend, whether printed or display, along with compensating for the expected viewing distance. I've compared the results using NIK vs. LR, and I noticed an improvement with the NIK sharpener and Dfine noise reduction. The whole NIK suite also includes tons of filter effects, vignetting effects, and interesting B&W effects that would be very difficult, if not impossible to duplicate in LR. Or at least, I see no way of duplicating them in LR. Silver Efex Pro allows you do do things with B&W photography that you absolutely cannot do in LR, if you do a lot of B&W. But, you're correct that the NIK stuff does duplicate much of what you can do in LR. I bought the whole collection solely for its excellent sharpening and noise reduction plug-ins alone; the rest of the collection was just a bonus.

Horoscope Fish said:

I don't disagree with what you're saying but by the same token this is akin to saying no one really needs a car since you can walk from LA to Boston. Both methods will get you from here to there, no arguing that, but the car will get you there in a fraction of the time and with a lot less effort expended. That is the point, really, of NIK Tools I think. And really... We can't blame the tool when a designer applies a dozen fonts where one should be used.

....

Click to expand...

Ahem brother


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[MENTION=22038]T-Man[/MENTION], all I can say is that if you're working from LR alone, the Nik tools can be cumbersome. I've got this thread bookmarked and will try and file a "Recommended LR/Nik Workflow" video in the next day or two, but no promises. PM me and I'll get back to you when I can. Suffice it to say, Nik is far more easily dealt with as layers in a Photoshop document. In LR, you're going to have to deal with files instead of layers, and delete once you're happy, or just add on to the existing file (not recommended - at least at first).

Actually, that's not entirely true. The NIK plug-ins have a feature called "control points" that allow you do do more precise detailed adjustments to brightness, contrast, structure (fine detail), etc to only a select portion of the image without globally affecting the remainder of the image.

Read more: http://nikonites.com/computers-software/23748-lightroom-nik-plug-ins-workflow.html#ixzz35gnHZbUH

Click to expand...

Sounds like LR's gradient tools...

FredKingston said:

Sounds like LR's gradient tools...

Click to expand...

Not really. Control points provide more finite control and more options than the LR gradient tools, and it's easier to use.

BackdoorHippie said:

@T-Man, all I can say is that if you're working from LR alone, the Nik tools can be cumbersome. I've got this thread bookmarked and will try and file a "Recommended LR/Nik Workflow" video in the next day or two, but no promises. PM me and I'll get back to you when I can. Suffice it to say, Nik is far more easily dealt with as layers in a Photoshop document. In LR, you're going to have to deal with files instead of layers, and delete once you're happy, or just add on to the existing file (not recommended - at least at first).

Click to expand...

Thank you! That's kinda what I'm discovering. Because I'm back in LR after editing the image in each successive NIK plug-in and jumping back and forth between NIK and LR at each step, I end up with a bunch of copies of the image that I have to delete as I go. I thought there had to be a more elegant way of going from one NIK module to the next. It would be cool if the NIK stuff all came bundled together into one application for LR users, with "tabs" to enter each individual function (i.e., you open NIK and at the top, you had a tab for RAW Pre-sharp, another tab for Dfine, another for Viveza, Silver Efex, etc., so you stay in the NIK suite the entire time and cumulatively edit the same image without leaving the app).

A video would be super helpful, but there's no rush. The fact you're even willing to put it together is incredibly generous of you, sir, and VERY much appreciated! I'm sure I can't be the only one who will benefit from this.

You bring up a good point that I hadn't considered. If I think I may use more than one of the Nik (or other) tools, I'll "Edit in Photoshop" rather than the individual modules. I'll save it as a PSD file back to Lightroom.

It should be said that PS Elements is a rather inexpensive (and sometimes free as older versions were occasionally bundled with other software) way to consolidate working with the Nik Suite. Just edit the photo with LR adjustments in PSE and apply the Nik filters as layers there. When you're done, flatten and save it back as a PSD or Tiff, whichever you prefer (I prefer the former). I've seen copies of PSE 8 & 9 sell on ebay for less than $5.

You make a good point about inexpensive copies of PSE 8 or 9.

It's probably a good idea for me to go ahead and buy a copy. I didn't want to go with the subscription service deal on current versions of PS, which is a big reason I went with LR in the first place (in addition to it being more intuitive and user-friendly in my view). Would I still be able to use my existing NIK suite with PSE, though? I bought the LR plug-in version of the collection, and if I'm not mistaken, it's not the same as the plug-ins for PS. Or, is there a way to get around that? Thanks again!

My understanding is that there is now one and only one version, so it should work with both. If you're unsure, download a trial of PSE, install it, reinstall Nik and check.