Ppi vs dpi

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WayneF

Senior Member
Just learning CS6 & am unable to find the options i use with LR.
What i used to do -
Import & Edit in LR
for any cloning & things like that i would export to CS6 and then once done, save it.
come back to LR & export.

If i were to wholly use Bridge, RAW & CS6 with no intervention from LR, how do i replicate the options available for LR?
This are mainly what i wish to do-

a) watermark
b) resample to 72ppi
c) add vignettes
d) add borders

anything else would be a bonus


I use Photoshop, I have not used Lightroom. ACR is the same module in both, but Lightroom does format the same options differently.

a) watermark

Sorry, dunno, I don't do that. See at bottom below.

b) resample to 72ppi

You would NEVER want to resample to 72 dpi, never ever. It is WRONG THINKING (despite what this forum advises). It has absolutely no purpose at all. You cannot print at 72 dpi, and video (monitors, web, etc) could not care less about dpi. You resample to new dimensions in pixels.

Photoshop menu Images - Image Size. It has a checkbox, Resample images. With that ON, it resamples. With that OFF, it just scales. Scaling only changes dpi without resampling. You could specify scaling to 72 dpi, but the specific case of 72 dpi would seem dumb, there is no purpose. You scale to fit image size in pixels to a certain size of paper.

Better, Photoshop has menu File - Scripts - Image Processor, which will batch process all files in the selected folder, to "Fit In" a certain size, and output all to some file type. For example, you have 3:2 images, but some are portrait, 2:3. You want to print 4x6 inches, needing 1800x1200, or 1200x1800. So you "Fit In" 1800x1800 pixels, and then both orientations come out exactly right, without your attention.

And there are other ways, batches with Actions, etc.

c) add vignettes

Easiest way may be in ACR, at the menu tab called fx. It offers vignetting.
Tab to left of it offers lens corrections, which is the opposite, it removes vignetting by the lens.

d) add borders

Again, sorry, I don't.

The web is your best help. Type Photoshop Borders, or Photoshop Watermarks,
and you will find vast numbers of help articles, most of them better than Adobes.
 
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Dave_W

The Dude
re: PPI VS DPI

The form doesn't, or shouldn't, advise you to make your images 72 dpi, rather it advises you to make your images 72 ppi. There's a big difference between dpi and ppi.
 

WayneF

Senior Member
re: PPI VS DPI

No, it;s the same thing here, and all throughout literature and the web and history of this. Printers (devices) may know about ink drops, but any image file or any scanner has absolutely no comprehension about ink drops. :) I could offer more argument than you would want, ppi vs dpi, but that is a different discussion.
 
re: PPI VS DPI

I use Photoshop, I have not used Lightroom. ACR is the same module in both, but Lightroom does format the same options differently.

a) watermark

Sorry, dunno, I don't do that. See at bottom below.

b) resample to 72ppi

You would NEVER want to resample to 72 dpi, never ever. It is WRONG THINKING (despite what this forum advises). It has absolutely no purpose at all. You cannot print at 72 dpi, and video (monitors, web, etc) could not care less about dpi. You resample to new dimensions in pixels.

Photoshop menu Images - Image Size. It has a checkbox, Resample images. With that ON, it resamples. With that OFF, it just scales. Scaling only changes dpi without resampling. You could specify scaling to 72 dpi, but the specific case of 72 dpi would seem dumb, there is no purpose. You scale to fit image size in pixels to a certain size of paper.

Better, Photoshop has menu File - Scripts - Image Processor, which will batch process all files in the selected folder, to "Fit In" a certain size, and output all to some file type. For example, you have 3:2 images, but some are portrait, 2:3. You want to print 4x6 inches, needing 1800x1200, or 1200x1800. So you "Fit In" 1800x1800 pixels, and then both orientations come out exactly right, without your attention.

And there are other ways, batches with Actions, etc.

c) add vignettes

Easiest way may be in ACR, at the menu tab called fx. It offers vignetting.
Tab to left of it offers lens corrections, which is the opposite, it removes vignetting by the lens.

d) add borders

Again, sorry, I don't.

The web is your best help. Type Photoshop Borders, or Photoshop Watermarks,
and you will find vast numbers of help articles, most of them better than Adobes.

WE have updated the file on uploading

Guidelines to adding a photo to your post.

1. Resize photo to 1000px on the long side.
2. Resolution set to 72ppi (Pixels Per Inch)
 

WayneF

Senior Member
re: PPI VS DPI

Well, since both have same meaning in this context (about images, not printers), my point actually was that both are pointless.
 

WayneF

Senior Member
re: PPI VS DPI

Well, you did ask. As for my view, I would suggest starting here:

The First Fundamental Concept about Printers and Video Screens

(That page starts higher, I point to this lower box)

Everyone knows and always knew, that printers print ink drops, perhaps in a screen pattern, at a resolution called dpi, which actually means ink drops per inch.

And we know that image resolution specifies to print pixels per inch (on paper, where inches exist)
This is a given. There can be no alternatives.

However, in commercial prepress, image resolution was historically always called dpi, forever back. That was just the formal name of it, without exception. OK, maybe it was jargon, but that was the formal use, in all the literature, and it was the name, and dpi was always was the use.

Both printer or image terms of dots are only a vague and meaningless term, but both are called dots per inch. A pixel is the color of a (hypothetical) area of paper, and an ink drop is a physical ink drop. Both are called dots, which again, has no specific meaning, until we say what it means. Context always makes it clear. If about images, it is pixels. If about printers, it is ink drops.

Maybe it is like the the editor term Resize. Resize has no meaning, it might be cropping or resampling or scaling, all extremely different, but we sometimes tend to say resize, which is totally meaningless until we say what we mean.

But maybe 15 years ago, inexpensive scanners started appearing, which meant novices with no experience started getting involved, because they had a few hundred dollars and a computer. Then digital cameras seriously started maybe 10 years ago, which brought in the masses, users who could not even imagine a pixel, which are indeed a drastic new notion, unknown until we learn.

So, trying to explain that 2400 dpi printers meant ink drops, and printing at 300 dpi meant pixels, tended to confuse the newbies - the actual problem was that they could not even imagine a pixel. Even though the term dpi had always meant resolution of image pixels, someone got the bright notion that dpi should only be used for printer ink drops, and ppi had to be used for image pixels. Only problem, not all got the word, or even agreed. It was just somebodies notions. Old timers were very comfortable with dpi meaning both. And newbies still saw both terms in use. The self-proclaimed purist people, standing up shouting "No Not DPI" just confused everything that the newbie saw to read, which was no help at all - because dpi actually does exist, plentifully.

My own view is that we obviously must understand the real world, where some say dpi and some say ppi, for the same thing, image resolution. We can say which ever we please, but regardless of our preference, we absolutely must understand it either way. Which is technically trivial, the context makes it clear: if it is about an image, it means pixels. If it is about a printer device, it means ink drops. Many English words have multiple meanings. How many can you think for the word "set", for example. My big dictionary has 116, more than two long columns. Just how it is. We manage. Context tells us the meaning.

So, when someone wants to tell me I can't say dpi, I have to ask "and just who are you that proclaims this?" :) If that happens to be you, then check out the formal specifications for JPG and TIF images

http://www.w3.org/Graphics/JPEG/jfif3.pdf (page 5)
http://partners.adobe.com/public/developer/en/tiff/TIFF6.pdf (page 38)

These are prestigious organizations, and the formal specifications for these image files CLEARLY SAY DPI. The term ppi is not in those documents. Probably because that idiot had not stood up yet. :) But of course, there are no ink drops in image files, there is no possible way to confuse it. But of course, the FORMAL specification for JPG files says DPI. And who are you to say otherwise? :) Just teasing, but you see my point?

Every scanner made has specs in dpi (yet they create pixels in images, not ink drops)
I think those people know what they are doing too.

Dye-sub printers, and chemical printers (like at the photo printing places) are continuous tone, they actually mix and print colored pixels instead of ink drops of 3 or 4 colors of ink. Their specs say dpi too.

But some people do say ppi, which is fine with me if they do. I understand it either way, and we all should, since that is what we will hear everywhere.

We know the term 72 dpi is NEVER about ink drops. It would be absurd as ink drops.
Yet search Google (with the quotes):

"72 ppi" Less than 1 million hits.

"72 dpi" 52 million hits (this certainly seems to be current usage)

Just how it is. We have to understand it either way.

Be that as it may, images for monitors and the web could not care less about dpi or ppi. Video devices show pixels directly, one for one. It simply cannot matter what the dpi field in JPG might specify, which is only about printing on paper, not about video devices.

So, the 72 ppi use here does seem rather quaint. :)
 
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Dave_W

The Dude
re: PPI VS DPI

Wayne, you've explained dpi very well but dpi is not ppi. They are two very different beasts and like I mentioned earlier the suggestion is to keep your files at 72 ppi resolution. Because as you've shown, we're not talking about a print resolution, instead we're talking about a monitor resolution.
 

Dave_W

The Dude
re: PPI VS DPI

Ultimately the reason we suggest a 72 ppi is to prevent (or lessen) the potential of theft of our photographs. An image set at 72 ppi vs 300 ppi will appear on a computer screen to look exactly the same, you cannot tell the difference because you're limited by your monitor's resolution. However, if someone were to steal your photo and try to print it, the 72 ppi image will produce a very poor print whereas the 300 ppi image will look spectacular.

So again, the reason we suggest 72 ppi isn't to make the image look better rather it is to reduce the potential for your image to be used without your consent.


 

WayneF

Senior Member
re: PPI VS DPI

Wayne, you've explained dpi very well but dpi is not ppi. They are two very different beasts and like I mentioned earlier the suggestion is to keep your files at 72 ppi resolution. Because as you've shown, we're not talking about a print resolution, instead we're talking about a monitor resolution.

Did you even read any of it? That response was unexpected, stunning, and disappointing. Clearly there is not going to be any debate about 72 dpi or its meaning or use. :(


Ultimately the reason we suggest a 72 ppi is to prevent (or lessen) the potential of theft of our photographs. An image set at 72 ppi vs 300 ppi will appear on a computer screen to look exactly the same, you cannot tell the difference because you're limited by your monitor's resolution. However, if someone were to steal your photo and try to print it, the 72 ppi image will produce a very poor print whereas the 300 ppi image will look spectacular.

So again, the reason we suggest 72 ppi isn't to make the image look better rather it is to reduce the potential for your image to be used without your consent.

I always heard it was wise not to debate the moderators. :) I have seen some of your photo work, and it's absolutely great, but it seems clear this topic is not your strong point.

But I will debate it, and I think you're kidding yourself. That is like hanging a "Do Not Steal" sign under the Mona Lisa. It may not actually deter anything. :)

The image is the size it is, dimensioned in pixels. The monitor does not limit anything. The term dpi or ppi is NEVER in the monitor manual or specificatons, and not in the video card manual or specifications. Because, inches are meaningless to them, and no inches, no dpi. It will do as much to put your shoe size in the image file. The video specifications are in pixels, like perhaps 1680x1050 pixels. In those pixels, the image is simply shown at the size it is (pixels). There are some ifs and buts, not all obvious, but overall, the monitor simply shows pixels, one for one. An 800 pixel image will fill half the width of a 1600 pixel screen, without concern for inches or dpi.

The dpi field is just a field in the JPG file (an isolated and unrelated bare number tucked off somewhere, and it is not even there if Exif is stripped). It has zero meaning to the monitor. Any thief that can access it (drag and drop) can simply remark it with any number he wants, easy as pie, same as you ask the user here to do. But (assuming scaled instead of resampled) the image still remains whatever size it was.

And as I showed you, the formal JPG specification shows it is called dpi. :)

The 300 dpi image will not print "spectacular". It is still the size it is, and a 1024x682 image will print around 3.4 x 2.2 inches at 300 dpi.

Printing capacity is determined by image size (pixels). The dpi field is completely arbitrary and unused, until the time we click File - Print, before which we can change it any way we please. Or for example, if we have Walmart print it, we just simply tell them what size of paper to print it on, and they will scale it for us. But, the image remains the size it is (pixels), and the one fact is that a small image will not print large well. And it still shows on video to be that same size.


So for these reasons, I think your 72 dpi advice business is totally pointless, no bragging point. One issue is that it reads as nonsense to all the people that know details. Maybe worse, some users don't even know how to comply with your request, and another is that it simply does absolutely nothing for anyone if they can. Sorry, I do fully understand, but I just don't get it.
 

Dave_W

The Dude
re: PPI VS DPI

I'm sorry Wayne but you're simply wrong. Maybe this link will help you understand.

I especially find this paragraph most telling

If you’re only going to look at an image on a screen, its PPI doesn’t matter because the PPI of your monitor is already fixed. So next time someone tells you to upload images to a website at 72ppi because that is “web resolution,” you can tell them that they have simply added a ridiculous extra step. Unless they are concerned with visitors taking the images from the website and then printing them, the PPI doesn’t matter. A 72ppi image and a 3,000ppi image will appear exactly the same on screen

PPI vs. DPI: what's the difference? - Designer Blog
 

Dave_W

The Dude
re: PPI VS DPI

I think you're again confusing the issue, Wayne. The 72 ppi we suggest has NOTHING to do with your monitor or the internet, it is solely suggested as a measure to keep your images safe from being printed. Yes, they can take your images and put them on the internet all day long. And yes, they can use a computer to extrapolate what the computer thinks the image might look like at a higher resolution but the fact remains it's not the same as the actual image itself.
So frankly I don't care one way or another what ppi you or anyone else posts their photos at. It doesn't matter to me. But if you do not want your photos to end up on someone's wall without your permission then you probably should post them at a resolution that limits the size of a print out.
 
re: PPI VS DPI

WhiteLight I am sorry this thread has gotten way off subject. I am closing it since it is not going anywhere. Please restart it when you want to. I have never used LR so I was finding it quite useful.

Again, I am sorry
 
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