Do you set hyperfocal or focus a different way?

hark

hark

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For those who use a wide angle lens for landscapes, how do you tend to focus? Do you set the lens to focus manually by setting it to hyperfocal or do you focus part way into the scene with auto focus or manual focus? And do you ever use f/16 or smaller apertures? (Yes, I know the smaller apertures have their drawbacks...). Thank you kindly for any ideas! ;)
 
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Rick M

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I'll try to hit my primary subject or focus at something about 1/3rd into the "scene". Wide angle lenses don't need really small apertures. I usually shoot my 18-35 between f5.6- f9. I'll only go higher to slow water, but rarely over f11. if I need to go over f11 to slow water, the ND filter goes on.
 
BackdoorArts

BackdoorArts

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What Rick said.

A 24mm lens at f/2.8 has the capability of giving you everything from 13 feet out to infinity in focus with a focus point set at around 26 feet. At f/5.6 you can get everything from 6 feet to infinity with the focus set at 12'. By f/11 you have just about everything. With the hyperfocal markings missing on modern digital lenses I opt for the digital alternative, a DoF app on my iPhone. I use TrueDoF-Intro, which is a free app. It covers all apertures from f/1.4-22, but if that's not enough then you can fork over $2.99 for the version that gives you f/1.0-33. I'm not sure why they charge for one and not the other, but I'm guessing they figure if you can afford glass that fast then you won't think twice about $3. LOL

Whether or not I use the app depends on just how close the first object is that I want in focus. If there are no foreground objects then I usually just aim at the subject with the lens at f/5.6-9, shoot and have a look. Otherwise I'll use the app to give me an idea of my DoF at given apertures and use it to select my aperture and focal point, but I still use the autofocus. The only time I regularly set focus using the lens marking is on my Rokinon 8mm since I have issues focusing with a fisheye and that one lacks AF.
 
hark

hark

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Don Kuykendall said:
I miss the old lenses where you had the markings so that you could set the hyper focal distance. I really don't know of a way to set it on the new lenses
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Me too. :( I still have a couple of older Nikon D lenses from my 35mm camera which have it but wish the newer ones would include it again. :)

Rick M said:
I'll try to hit my primary subject or focus at something about 1/3rd into the "scene". Wide angle lenses don't need really small apertures. I usually shoot my 18-35 between f5.6- f9. I'll only go higher to slow water, but rarely over f11. if I need to go over f11 to slow water, the ND filter goes on.
Click to expand...

How far you focus into a scene is what I was after, @Rick M. Thanks for the info! I am wondering exactly where to focus for wide angle shots so I appreciate knowing you focus about 1/3 into the scene. :cool: I do know that wide angle lenses have smaller apertures. For those who don't know, divide the length of the lens' mm by the f-stop...so a 20mm lens shot at f/4 has an aperture diameter of 5mm compared to a 200mm lens shot at f/4 which has an aperture diameter of 50mm. I never really shot any landscapes with a wide lens so I just wanted to be sure how to achieve the greatest DOF.

BackdoorHippie said:
What Rick said.

A 24mm lens at f/2.8 has the capability of giving you everything from 13 feet out to infinity in focus with a focus point set at around 26 feet. At f/5.6 you can get everything from 6 feet to infinity with the focus set at 12'. By f/11 you have just about everything. With the hyperfocal markings missing on modern digital lenses I opt for the digital alternative, a DoF app on my iPhone. I use TrueDoF-Intro, which is a free app. It covers all apertures from f/1.4-22, but if that's not enough then you can fork over $2.99 for the version that gives you f/1.0-33. I'm not sure why they charge for one and not the other, but I'm guessing they figure if you can afford glass that fast then you won't think twice about $3. LOL

Whether or not I use the app depends on just how close the first object is that I want in focus. If there are no foreground objects then I usually just aim at the subject with the lens at f/5.6-9, shoot and have a look. Otherwise I'll use the app to give me an idea of my DoF at given apertures and use it to select my aperture and focal point, but I still use the autofocus. The only time I regularly set focus using the lens marking is on my Rokinon 8mm since I have issues focusing with a fisheye and that one lacks AF.
Click to expand...

Hmm...an app! :cool: Since I don't have a smartphone, maybe I'll download this app to my ipod which I carry with me quite often. It sounds like it will fit the bill and will tell me the specifics of DOF which will be immensely helpful especially since the newer lenses lack the hyperfocal marking. Cool! :D

Thank you all! ;)
 
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Rick M

Senior Member
If you are really close to something, you will want to focus on a part close to you. I stick to the 1/3 rule with things a bit further away (say the 12' Jake mentioned). For example, in this shot I focused on the shovel, which was only about 3' away (and actually about 1/3 down from it's tip).

DSC_6924_9338_5_9339_6_9340_tonemapped-2.jpg
 
hark

hark

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Rick M said:
If you are really close to something, you will want to focus on a part close to you. I stick to the 1/3 rule with things a bit further away (say the 12' Jake mentioned). For example, in this shot I focused on the shovel, which was only about 3' away (and actually about 1/3 down from it's tip).

View attachment 64749
Click to expand...

Good to know. Thanks Rick! It is your images such as this one (which I assume was taken with your Nikon 18-35mm) that created such a desire to own a wide angle zoom. It is the perspective distortion that the lens creates when shot at 18mm that I'd like to apply to landscapes--perhaps with rocks or flowers in the foreground leading the eye into the photo. I don't see enough landscapes here that apply this same technique so I watch for any photos you post taken with this perspective. Thanks again! :)
 
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WayneF

Senior Member
1/3 into the scene is good practice for landscapes, but it is a variable with distance. If subject is up pretty close (say under ten 10 feet, and certainly 5 feet, and including macro), it becomes closer to 1/2 way into the scene.
 
hark

hark

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WayneF said:
1/3 into the scene is good practice for landscapes, but it is a variable with distance. If subject is up pretty close (say under ten 10 feet, and certainly 5 feet, and including macro), it becomes closer to 1/2 way into the scene.
Click to expand...

Thanks kindly, Wayne! The info will be helpful especially when I start to delve into macro with my 105mm. I greatly appreciate your information! ;)

The info provided in this thread will undoubted save me from tossing bad images due to incorrect focusing! :cool:
 
hark

hark

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And to @BackdoorHippie, one thing I will definitely check out after I download that app will be to apply it when I take the high school's theater photos. I'll need to determine my distance (*maybe* 60 feet--an estimated guess), but because my ISO is high for the low light, I tend to use f/2.8 up to f/5.6 at 200mm with shutter speeds @1/15" up to 1/40"). It's a shallow depth of field for sure so the app will definitely come in handy! :)
 
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simonkit

Senior Member
I use a combination of the "1/3rd into the scene" and Hyperfocal distance.. when I have really close foreground focus point becomes critical so this is when I use Hyperfocal distance, I have an App on my smartphone which is great.. unfortunately it is a little more difficult than the old day with lens scales but the more you use it the better you get at judging distances

Simon
 
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moony16

Senior Member
You can download a Hyperfocal Distance calculator here: Online Depth of Field Calculator which tells you precisely where to set focus: you plug in aperture, body, focal length & the distance is given to you.
Or, if you are a mathophile, you can do the math yourself with this:

For the first definition,
46a03e9bd0c3e710db829d665b3b4410.png
where
c1d9f50f86825a1a2302ec2449c17196.png
is hyperfocal distance
8fa14cdd754f91cc6554c9e71929cce7.png
is focal length
8d9c307cb7f3c4a32822a51922d1ceaa.png
is f-number (
cc90624f4e3643d7e8505fdb13d31057.png
for aperture diameter
f623e75af30e62bbd73d6df5b50bb7b5.png
)
4a8a08f09d37b73795649038408b5f33.png
is the circle of confusion limit For any practical f-number, the focal length is insignificant in comparison with the first term, so that
58ee94d03accdb2cf4e2ffd49d71cf95.png

Hyperfocal distances are particularly important in Ultra wide angle photograhpy.

JT

Finally, you can download a chart, with an x & y axis which is handy because it lists all possible settings for the hyperfocal distance based upon your body--just Google a search for one and print it out--I carry 1 with me as needed.
 
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Deezey

Senior Member
I manually focus. I used to do the f22 1/3 trick, but I am finding myself using larger apertures now. I top out at F16 now. But usually go to f8.
 
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moony16

Senior Member
The Hyperfocal distance is a precise mathematical concept. It basically means: the distance setting at any aperture that produces the greatest depth of field. To use the Hyperfocal distance correctly, you must use the precise co-ordinates. You are not using the Hyperfocal distance if you are focusing half way, a third of the way and so on.

For example, I believe (do not have a chart with me) for an APS-c sensor, f/8 and 10mm, you need to set the focus point very near the 1 meter mark. Note--this is nowhere near 1/2 or 1/3rd of the way into the composition.

JT
 
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aroy

Senior Member
As the sensor density increases and the details are rendered finer, the DOF changes. What may have been OK for a 10MP sensor will be OOF for a 24MP sensor (same size), as now you can see more details per mm of the sensor. So what was fine for film has now to be narrowed down. So the DOF narrows and calculations should take that into account. Now the DOF will be calculated based on
. Aperture
. Distance
. Sensor density (or MP, which ever is easier)

With modern AF lenses the throw of the focus is short to facilitate faster focusing by the machine, hence the even if the DOF scale is given it is meaning less.

With lenses designed for manual focus especially some macro lenses the focusing marker moves at least 180 degrees and in extreme cases 300 degrees. With that much movement the focusing scale will be at least an inch long and in case of a fat barrel upto 2.5 inches long. With that long a scale you can judge distances and set hyperfocal distance with DOF scale. With modern lenses the scale is between 1/4 and 1/2 of an inch so setting the distance manually based on the values on the scale is extremely difficult if not futile.

That is why knowing the DOF depth and focusing ahead is the norm today.

I wish that some day the camera manufacturers would incorporate a feature which would let us dial a distance and the lense would focus for that distance - a fairly simple feature as anyway the camera knows at what distance the focusing point is (the "D" part of Nikon D lenses).
 
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moony16

Senior Member
aroy said:
As the sensor density increases and the details are rendered finer, the DOF changes. What may have been OK for a 10MP sensor will be OOF for a 24MP sensor (same size), as now you can see more details per mm of the sensor. So what was fine for film has now to be narrowed down. So the DOF narrows and calculations should take that into account. Now the DOF will be calculated based on
. Aperture
. Distance
. Sensor density (or MP, which ever is easier)

With modern AF lenses the throw of the focus is short to facilitate faster focusing by the machine, hence the even if the DOF scale is given it is meaning less.

With lenses designed for manual focus especially some macro lenses the focusing marker moves at least 180 degrees and in extreme cases 300 degrees. With that much movement the focusing scale will be at least an inch long and in case of a fat barrel upto 2.5 inches long. With that long a scale you can judge distances and set hyperfocal distance with DOF scale. With modern lenses the scale is between 1/4 and 1/2 of an inch so setting the distance manually based on the values on the scale is extremely difficult if not futile.

That is why knowing the DOF depth and focusing ahead is the norm today.

I wish that some day the camera manufacturers would incorporate a feature which would let us dial a distance and the lense would focus for that distance - a fairly simple feature as anyway the camera knows at what distance the focusing point is (the "D" part of Nikon D lenses).
Click to expand...

Calculations for the site I posted use the camera body in the equation: hyperfocal distances are accurate. Some more discussion, with charts, here:
DOF and Hyperfocal Distance, Tables and Calculator
 
J

J_Murphy

Senior Member
I have a basic question on the subject of hyperfocal distance. I was just reading an article suggesting choosing an object as a focal point in a landscape shot so the photo doesn't look empty (i.e., drawing the viewers eye towards something). So, if I want to shoot using hyperfocal distance, does this mean I should position myself so that the focal point (object of interest in this case) is approximately near the hyperfocal distance? Which should I be more concerned about?

THanks
 
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moony16

Senior Member
J_Murphy said:
I have a basic question on the subject of hyperfocal distance. I was just reading an article suggesting choosing an object as a focal point in a landscape shot so the photo doesn't look empty (i.e., drawing the viewers eye towards something). So, if I want to shoot using hyperfocal distance, does this mean I should position myself so that the focal point (object of interest in this case) is approximately near the hyperfocal distance? Which should I be more concerned about?

THanks
Click to expand...

Hey J: In UWA shooting in particular, it is often desirable to "anchor" a scene by composing with something in the foreground--you'll see this done splendidly, all the time, by good UWA shooters. However, using this technique does not affect use of the Hyper-focal distance: you still use the same formula. The Hyper-focal distance will pretty much assure you that your "anchor" object is within the focal plane. And you can confirm whether or not it is, simply by reading what focal plane you've setup based upon your selected aperture & other variables in the Hyper-focal equation which determine the focal plane--in other words, you have control over what is in the focal plane. Best jt
 
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WayneF

Senior Member
J_Murphy said:
I have a basic question on the subject of hyperfocal distance. I was just reading an article suggesting choosing an object as a focal point in a landscape shot so the photo doesn't look empty (i.e., drawing the viewers eye towards something). So, if I want to shoot using hyperfocal distance, does this mean I should position myself so that the focal point (object of interest in this case) is approximately near the hyperfocal distance? Which should I be more concerned about?

THanks
Click to expand...


NOT of course if your near subject is closer than the hyperfocal distance. If the subject is at 8 feet and hyperfocal is at 4 feet (wide angle), naturally focus on the subject instead (if you have no use for 4 feet). In fact, anytime subject is near and important, you might also try a second shot with the focus on the subject, and see what you think. DOF range does not mean that the extremes are same sharp focus as the focused distance. It just means the extremes are at the limits of acceptability, by some arbitrary standards. A close fuzzy subject seems more objectionable.
 
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