Rant on manual exposure and why I don't believe it. Well, in most cases..

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eurotrash

Senior Member
Ok, so I was thinking today. I know, something I shouldn't do too much. It was that time of the week where ideas sprout up be they good or terrible.

Let's look at a properly exposed image. Let's say the image was shot on aperture priority mode. Let's also assume that the shooter ONLY cares about a properly exposed image, no fancy crap like, "oh, i want this aperture, buuut, I also want to blur the subject..." No. None of that creative bullcrap here. Let us only assume we are looking at proper exposure for a moment, we can all be creative later.
So.

In this particular shot, the shooter selected f5.6 as his aperture, and Mr. Camera decides that the shutter speed would need to be 1/60th of a second to create the image. Cool stuff. Way to think, Mr. Camera.

Let's switch it into manual mode and take the exact same photo. The shooter knows that he wants his aperture to be f5.6, but he's also got to dial up his shutter speed to get a properly exposed photo. We already know where around the shutter speed should be. You guessed it. 1/60th of a second. But what if we didn't know right off the bat like some crazy smart super-hero of photography? He takes a look in his viewfinder as he's fiddling with his shutter speed, trying to get that little bar to slide to the right/left, knowing that anywhere other than the center would yield an improperly exposed shot. Phooey patootie.

This brings me to my devastatingly retarded conclusion that, assuming all one really cares about is a properly exposed picture, manual mode requires twice the amount of thinking, prep work and time to get right compared to flicking your camera into Aperture Priority mode and shooting your photo.
I could be wrong about all this, but this is the way I thought about things.
And this is also why I don't shoot in manual. Unless I'm being creative or reallly need to. Which, I rarely do. :p

Anyone else come to a similar profound theory? Let's hear what you think!

Again, this post is really just a rant, not to be taken too seriously.. It's late, and I'm somewhat bored and intoxicated.
 

Tobrew

Senior Member
I know it's probably heresy but I pretty much agree with you on this. :D The only time I really use full manual mode is when I'm using off camera flash or long exposure stuff. The other times that I use manual mode are few and far between. I take most of my shots in aperture priority and use the +/- exposure to adjust as needed. I'm now bracing for retribution.
 

pedroj

Senior Member
I use manual most of the time and I don't find it tedious to move that little slider to get the perfect exposure...

Each to their own I say...
 

ohkphoto

Snow White
But at the end of the day what is most important what the image looks like or how it was taken?.

Always the image. Whether one shoots in aperature, manual or program mode is a matter of preference. I want more from my photos than correct exposure. Sometimes I want to deliberately underexpose . . . it all depends on the light. So I think everyone should use the mode they're most comfortable with. There are many who did not grow up with film so the whole idea of f-stop and shutter speed remains a mystery to them. Fortunately, the auto settings can help them.

How many "photographers". use post editing?
Hopefully all of them. This is DIGITAL photography. Post processing is required . . . either the camera does it or the photographer does it.
 

westmill

Banned
My thoughts.... All exposure modes are there for a reason.... All exposure modes can and should be used for the purpose intended.
When Im in the studio I shoot on manual because I control everything. When out and about, its 95% aperture priority and AE lock.
It never ceases to amaze me just how many modes cameras can come up with. There are simply 2 things you adjust... Aperture and shutter speed.
How many different variations can two things involve lol. I use aperture priority mostly because 9 times out of ten I place more importance over
the aperture than the shutter speed. To be honest, I stay in aperture priority even when concentrating on the shutter speed, since it's not exactly hard to see the shutter speed. I often hear people say program modes are not for real photographers or whatever... what nonsense !
Program and especially hyper program modes are the press photographers best friend. I may not use program much... BUT.... I store my cameras set on program ! Sometimes... the most important thing is simply getting the shot... period ! When you see prince charles trip and fall flat on his face, I don't think he will lie there while you set up :) Its the same with metering settings, they all have there uses and should all be utilized.
My thoughts and advice... use the right tool for the right job. :D
 
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Lscha

Senior Member
I am extremely grateful for both. I don't know my aperture from a hole in the ground. It is getting harder for me to grasp this as I get older. I love experimenting with the MASP but if it weren't for the pre-sets, I wouldn't be snapping. I have noticed that the more I know, the worse I get. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. :rolleyes:
 

fotojack

Senior Member
Yup....couldn't have said it better myself, west! :) Very well explained. I hope a lot of the newbies take this to heart.
 

Eye-level

Banned
Simple answer...you are right ET...

More long and involved answer in defense of manual mode (and definately NOT the case with me)...some photographers have been at it so long and hard they intuitively understand the light and the shutter speed and the ISO setting for any given situation...they just "auto"-matically know what the settings are... :) (Note to the intrepid - although it is not exactly easy to aquire this skill of knowing the settings for any given light it is not impossible either)

Then there are people like me because of the gear I have I can't shoot anything other than manual mode and I am a glutton for pain and a control freak on top of that and pretty obstinate as well...plus I just like doing things the old fashioned way...LOL

I started thinking about this a little more and here is what I came up with...

When I use the D5000 I always use manual because all of my lenses are old...what I do is set the camera up on auto bracketing -1/+1 stop...if I have a meter I'll take a reading and set the camera accordingly...if I don't have the meter, which is the case most of the time I just sunny 16 the situation in my head and make a guesstimate of where the exposure is at...with the bracketing I usually get the correct shot...it really is just about as easy and thoughtless as Aperture or Shutter mode and fast enough IMO...

Remember I came from film though and I do this sort of thing all the time...
 
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gav329

Senior Member
I'm a beginner at this game for sure and lots if the technical chat is way over my head. I must admit to having a laugh at this thread. Digital is a fabulous phenomenon but I can't help smile st comments like "post processing" (does this qualify as cheating in a round about way?). Are digital photographers as good as the film guys? If you can take a photo and play about in photoshop etc to make it a great photo then does the photographer need to be as good? Framing and subject choice of course makes the great photo for sure and I'd essential but it almost appears that exposure etc and effects can be added to cure/sort out and improve a picture.

Photographers like jeff used film and so the controls had to be right because until the film was developed then the photographer wouldn't know how his/her picture would look and they couldn't use software to correct it.

I'm a big fan of digital and it makes some of mine look a lot better than I could ever do with film.


Gav

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ZekeMenuar

New member
I use shutter priority most of the time.
Set the base ISO to 200 and the range from 200-800, set an appropriate shutter speed for the conditions making minor corrections as needed.
I like manual for water shots and time exposures. Other than those situations I don't use manual at all.
If I get another AF-D lens then I'll go back to manual for that particular lens.

I like full auto for the times when Her Majesty wants to use the camera.
Auto is good for rapidly changing conditions or the times I have no clue how to set up a given shot.

It's nice to have manual and auto settings. More choice makes for better images. Especially for noobs like myself.
 

westmill

Banned
I'm a beginner at this game for sure and lots if the technical chat is way over my head. I must admit to having a laugh at this thread. Digital is a fabulous phenomenon but I can't help smile st comments like "post processing" (does this qualify as cheating in a round about way?). Are digital photographers as good as the film guys? If you can take a photo and play about in photoshop etc to make it a great photo then does the photographer need to be as good? Framing and subject choice of course makes the great photo for sure and I'd essential but it almost appears that exposure etc and effects can be added to cure/sort out and improve a picture.

Photographers like jeff used film and so the controls had to be right because until the film was developed then the photographer wouldn't know how his/her picture would look and they couldn't use software to correct it.

I'm a big fan of digital and it makes some of mine look a lot better than I could ever do with film.


Gav

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I was devloping and printing in a darkroom when I was just 13 years old.
I shot my first wedding at 16 years old. I quickly moved to medium format. I would use two rolls of film.
The albums I used took 30 pages. I had just 32 exposures between the two films. I was allowed two mistakes !
You realy did need to know what you were doing back then.
Post processing.... For me it depends how far you go. You can just make corrections and alter tone etc
but dont forget that these are basicly programs designed to simulate a darkroom.
The question is.... when does it stop being a photograph and become a computer generated image ?
There is no defining line. Its easy to argue it starts as one since it was shot in digital from the start.
As for the, are the film camera guys better than digital... Well... For those that realy want too, you can learn photography
every bit as well using a digital camera as you could on film if that person has the desire to do so. That shouldnt make
any differance. Film guys have the advantage of being around a lot longer to have been using film in the first place
though lol. Im very old school. I shoot digital but my head sees film still. I expose as if I was still using slide film.
I hate over worked pics like HDR etc. It impresses me not lol. Unless it is used as intended.
This is when I dont see a photograph, I see a computer generated image.
Im not even saying I dont like some of the images, because some look fantastic, when done well.
I simply dont see them as photographs. For me, they are images, and for me at least, there is a differance.
Im sure others will see it differently and others wont care and think its the end result that counts etc.
Photography is an artform. The camera is your brush and the lens is your paint. You paint with light in digital
as you did with film. Its down to the individual how he or she paints ;)
 

Eye-level

Banned
In reference to a post Gav made above about post processing...what a lot of folks new to cameras post film digital era do not realize is that back in the film days the really good photographers used tons of post processing tricks in the darkroom! Perhaps even more stuff than people do now with photoshop!

There is no question digital is the way to go and is superior to film IMO but here is what I would like to say about it...if you can teach yourself or learn how to make decent pictures using old manual focus manual everything film cameras (or digital camera in manual mode) it is gonna make you a better or at the very least a more well rounded digital photographer...that is why I always tell everyone that it is a good thing sometimes to throw down the crutches and put it in manual and try to figure out how to make it work...

One thing that was good for me when I finally got my D5000 is I opened up the box threw a lens on it and I was off to the races immediately...in manual mode...heck A or S or Auto would have been boring!

OK enough with the talk about shooting modes...let's talk about how important white balance is and whether or not auto white balance is a good thing! You had to change film to handle this one back in the day... LOL
 
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gav329

Senior Member
Hi jeff/westmill

Well I've learned a new thing about film processing there guys!! I had no idea there was dark room tricks, absolutely no idea that could happen. Yes some great points there about overdone images, that's exactly what was on my mind. I love seeing good photos but some are definitely over the top!! The HDR I must admit isn't something I fancy to be honest.


Gav

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westmill

Banned
Hi jeff/westmill

Well I've learned a new thing about film processing there guys!! I had no idea there was dark room tricks, absolutely no idea that could happen. Yes some great points there about overdone images, that's exactly what was on my mind. I love seeing good photos but some are definitely over the top!! The HDR I must admit isn't something I fancy to be honest.


Gav

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh yes ! There is not much you can't do in the darkroom. Dodging and burning done with bits of shaped card
on thin wire etc. HDR is a very old darkroom trick used by landscape photographers for years.
It is generally more subtle with film though. Cibachrome gave precious little dynamic range and commanded spot
on exposure. Two stops under exposed and you had a black slide lol. Get it right though and wow !
Cross processing refers to processing films in chemicals designed for different kinds of film. Such as E6 in C45 etc
Just the way we do it has changed. the darkroom has turned into the lightroom lol.
There were similar debates even back then. If you altered a picture too much, is it still a true photograph.
Colour verses black and white even. I still live in this world of principles. I see a scene, the first question you should
ask yourself is if the colour is important to the scene. If not its likely to distract and rob the picture of impact.
Photography itself is one of those things you can take very deeply or you can have a very shallow take on it.
One thing to remember is there are no rules, only guidelines. It's this that allows it to be possible for anyone to put
their own individual spin or take and style in their photographs. :D
 
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Eye-level

Banned
And they raised hell with each other when AE and then AF came out too....manual vs AE...manual vs AF...auto everything won because people are lazy and the technology works and is easier...no brainer! LOL

Nowadays once the negatives are made and scanned they become digital images and as such are a heckuva lot easier to manipulate...the darkroom is even more obsolete than film!

Photography is a convaluted thing...kind of like playing guitar...where they fight about acoustic vs electric...hahaha

Now if you shoot in only B&W/Monochrome I can respect that...you are taking on a great challenge...
 
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