Lens Diffraction

Eyelight

Senior Member
@J-see I think you went running full tilt past the point. I could have posted without the EXIF, but figured it would be useful to the discussion.

If you go back and look at the two images in post #13 with no other numbers or thinking. Just look at the images. Is one image better than the other?

ETA: Actually better is too subjective. Does one image show more detail than the other?
 
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J-see

Senior Member
Lenses go down in quality the more you close down. You'll lose more quality closing down than blowing up in photoshop. That's the digital age.

When I started shooting digital I carried with me knowledge of the past. I used to do this and that for these and those reasons. It worked in the past so it evidently should work now. It didn't turn out that way.

I only started to get ahead after I realised that I should forget everything I knew and temporarily ignore everything prescribed and start from scratch.

There are only three things of importance:

What are the limitations of my hardware?
What are the limitations of my software?
What are my limitations in working with both?

That's all that matters now and the decades of knowledge old people, me included, carry along has for a large part become completely irrelevant. Whether we like that or not. We can carry on as we did in the past but it won't be to our benefit.

Or we accept there is constant change and we change with it.
 

J-see

Senior Member
@J-see I think you went running full tilt past the point. I could have posted without the EXIF, but figured it would be useful to the discussion.

If you go back and look at the two images in post #13 with no other numbers or thinking. Just look at the images. Is one image better than the other?

ETA: Actually better is too subjective. Does one image show more detail than the other?

Of course the one with more depth is better than the other, visually. But there are more roads that lead to Rome and not all of them are old and rocky. Closing down is not the best option but there's no need to believe me, just test if I'm right or not and see for yourself.
 

WayneF

Senior Member
There are several factors affecting the disadvantage of diffraction and the benefit of depth of field. Very often DOF helps much more than diffraction hurts.

We rarely show 100% size, and typically resample tremendously smaller, so we typically have resolution to spare, allowing the beneficial tradeoff for greater depth of field. We are likely missing out if we don't investigate that advantage of depth of field. When it helps, it helps. And very often, stopping down more helps. We should use our heads, and try some things, and look for best results. If we don't look, we will never see.

Image object size is a factor. If the image object size is large, like half of the frame, it is easily seen and diffraction is a lesser factor... than if the tiny object size is comparable to an Airy disk size. :) Increasing subject size can always help, in several ways, diffraction being one of them. Saying, there are vast numbers of line pairs of resolution across a large object, and few across a small object.

Lens focal length is a factor. The diffraction formula says f/d, which is fstop number, and a direct relationship. However, real world obviously says more f helps, and small d hurts. The longer lens certainly is a plus. A 24mm lens will not provide f/32, and probably not even f/22. But a 200 mm lens probably has f/32 and it is intended to be used (but an 18-200 mm zoom is in the wider class). Focal length is an advantage of the 105 and 200 mm macro lenses, allowing more extreme stopping down. We already know these things...

Pinhole cameras need at least about f/100 to even be usable.

Ansel Adams had his f/64 group, specifically to promote sharper more detailed photos in the day (1930s). But he also used a 12 inch lens (300+ mm) on his 8x10 view cameras.

There is a lot to be said for stopping down, but yes, less so on wide lenses. My view is at Diffraction limited images? Really?
 
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