First D810 Service Advisory - Thermal Issues on Long Exposures

richardhurst

Senior Member
But it states that even after the fix you still may get the issue and you need to use LENR to reduce the issue further. Seems pointless sending it back in
 

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
But it states that even after the fix you still may get the issue and you need to use LENR to reduce the issue further. Seems pointless sending it back in

Yeah, a lot depends on your use and what you do in post, if I read it correctly. As a percentage of normal shots, my 30+ second exposures are in <0.01% range (what's that, 1 in 10K? OK, maybe <0.1%), so I'd have to think hard about sending it back. But for people who do a lot of night sky and Milky Way photography this could be a real issue. And when you're out there in the field you don't want to have to wait 2 minutes before you can frame your next 2 minute exposure every time. I do believe there is a way to do LENR in Photoshop after the fact by taking an equal length black frame exposure and using it to "heal" the original, but still, it's a pain to deal with on a camera of that level (or any level, really). That they dealt with it so quickly leads me to believe that they're either in full on damage control mode since the D600, or it's something they knew about and had not been able to overcome by release date and figured they'd roll the dice and try and get a firmware fix out there before anyone noticed since it was on such a unique type of photo.

This is by no means of the level of what happened with the D600, and as a software systems person I know that things like this go out with releases all the time since missed release dates are far more damaging than what you get for minor bugs (which this really is in the scope of things). But when you are already bruised it hurts even more when someone punches you in the same spot.
 

Cowleystjames

Senior Member
Checked on my serial no today after an email from Nikon UK, and I've got one that needs to go back to Nikon.
They've sent anpost paid label just have to drop it into a post office.
But they're saying two to four weeks for repair!
Two questions, is that timescale acceptable for a camera that I've had for only three weeks? And is it worth sending in to repair a function that I'm probably not going to use?
 

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
Checked on my serial no today after an email from Nikon UK, and I've got one that needs to go back to Nikon.
They've sent anpost paid label just have to drop it into a post office.
But they're saying two to four weeks for repair!
Two questions, is that timescale acceptable for a camera that I've had for only three weeks? And is it worth sending in to repair a function that I'm probably not going to use?

Let's hear it for the early adopters!! When I got my D600 my first trip back to Nikon was 3 1/2 weeks, with 18 of those days being a wait for parts. The second time was a week longer for the same reason. Unless you're shooting long exposures I would wait until the dust settles and all the people panicking send theirs back.
 

Cowleystjames

Senior Member
Let's hear it for the early adopters!! When I got my D600 my first trip back to Nikon was 3 1/2 weeks, with 18 of those days being a wait for parts. The second time was a week longer for the same reason. Unless you're shooting long exposures I would wait until the dust settles and all the people panicking send theirs back.

I'm tempted to do that as apart from exposures of a second or two(which don't seem to have a problem) I don't do long exposure
 

Cowleystjames

Senior Member
Bored with this whole scenario now so i tried mine. Sigma 50mm F1.4 art @30 seconds, LENR off, iso 100. Can't find anything that I can't replicate on my D4s if I look really hard.
I'm not sending mine back as I don't believe there's anything wrong.
This whole thing has been blown out of proportion by people who want to find fault.
Just enjoy your photography
 

richardhurst

Senior Member
Bored with this whole scenario now so i tried mine. Sigma 50mm F1.4 art @30 seconds, LENR off, iso 100. Can't find anything that I can't replicate on my D4s if I look really hard.
I'm not sending mine back as I don't believe there's anything wrong.
This whole thing has been blown out of proportion by people who want to find fault.
Just enjoy your photography

I agree with you I've done some 3+ minute exposures with and without LENR on and didn't really see anything. I got mine done though as it wasn't that far for me to go and got me out of the office :)
 

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
Bored with this whole scenario now so i tried mine. Sigma 50mm F1.4 art @30 seconds, LENR off, iso 100. Can't find anything that I can't replicate on my D4s if I look really hard.
I'm not sending mine back as I don't believe there's anything wrong.
This whole thing has been blown out of proportion by people who want to find fault.
Just enjoy your photography

While I don't disagree with you, I do believe what folks like Nasim do in testing new cameras is critical, and a real service to the Nikon community. Finding fault is part of field testing, and Nikon and every other camera company relies on their pros to find the faults they missed while crossing fingers and hoping they don't.

The D600 situation has made the idea of a Service Advisory far more debilitating than it should be, and those who want to poke at Nikon will use this and every SA for the foreseeable future to do just that. How we react is up to us. My reason for posting initially is not to poke at Nikon but to inform the forum because, 1) we have D810 users here, and 2) we have night-shooters here. If someone happens to be both then I would expect them to test their own camera - stick it in a closet, put the lens cap on and take a 2 minute exposure or 3 and see what shows or doesn't. No noise? No problem. Noise? Consider how it impacts you and if you need to send it in do it at a convenient time, because you can't "enjoy your photography" if your camera is ruining your photographs. Otherwise, like life in general, no one should be sweating the small stuff.
 

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
BTW, Canon has plenty of defects as well (I hear about them from my brother). They just seem to handle theirs with far more aplomb.

Alas, not only has Nikon mishandled a couple recent issues, they are at a point where they can't afford to be in any way sloppy. But I don't know that I would even consider this sloppy, particularly when compared to the early focus issues on the D800, the backfocus on the D7000 and the (gasp) D600 mess. It's an extreme use that slipped through testing and is truly a minor bug and easily fixable and utterly ignorable by most photographers. It's just on the heals of a mess.
 

Cowleystjames

Senior Member
Nikon certainly aren't just doing a firmware update.
After contact with Nikon UK, they have one technician trained to go through the re calibration process (their words). Note the words 're calibration process'
After talking to said tech regarding being unable to replicate the error found by photography life, he stated that all cameras produce these hot pixels when pushed as stated, and sure enough, I can make my D4s produce similar results to my D810 when set to ISO 100, Lenr off, and an exposure of two minutes,
However, with Lenr on as he suggested, I have no problems with so called hot pixels in either camera.
So may I suggest, part of the process undertaken is an enhancement of Lenr along with sensor calibration?
I am going in to Nikon UK on Tuesday for mine to be 'fixed'. The tech reckons he can get it done within 25 minutes, but wouldn't elaborate on the fix any further.
 

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
All cameras do, indeed, produce hot pixels when pushed hard. I think the issue that Nasim pointed to is that most cameras do not produce them at 30 seconds (which is a relatively tame exposure when it comes to "long" exposures), let alone those costing over $3K, and that's what sparked the concern. LENR certainly works, and is often necessary when doing minutes long exposures. But hot pixels at 30 seconds consistently is a problem somewhere, firmware or otherwise, and they've obviously figured a way to adjust for it as they do in other cameras.
 

zutty

Senior Member
Well, I exchanged my D810 that was on the recall list and received the replacement today. It is NOT on the list and has the little black mark in the tripod thread. Also the firmware is version 1.01 and the other was 1.00. So hopefully this one will have no issues. I'll have to test it but at least this one isn't marked for recall.
 

egosbar

Senior Member
with the major problems of the 610 why would anyone buy a new model as soon as it hits the shelf id always wait a few months and see what comes out in the wash
 

Cowleystjames

Senior Member
The whole process took 20 minutes and the techy told me he'd remapped the sensor and updated the firmware. Only two techs are qualified to do it at Nikon UK.
I talked to him regarding my inability to replicate the problem causing this furore and he did state that Nikon are jumping on the so called problem to avoid another D600 fiasco, and the recall involves all builds up until the second week of the third quarter (July then!)
Seeing as he seemed chatty, I pushed him on why I couldn't replicate the issue. His answer was that a few builds seem to have had an issue with sensor mapping out of the factory and Nikon have pulled al builds in up to that date. However, not all bodies will be affected only the ones off of one build line, unfortunately serial numbers don't equate with a particular build line.
He was amazingly forthright and perhaps this explains the inability for some owners to replicate the issue.
 
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