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  1. #1
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    Flash Commander Mode - flash too late

    Need some help.

    I have a Nissin MARKii Di622 flash. My D7100 is set to commander mode. Flash is set to trigger from the camera. The camera is triggering the remote flash but it is (I believe) flashing too late so I have no light being added to my picture beyond what the on-board flash is putting out to trigger the remote flash.

    ​What am I missing?


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    D5100, D7100, D600
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    Re: Flash Commander Mode - flash too late

    What is your shutter speed? Sometimes with non Nikon flashes you have to reduce your shutter speed to 1/125s. Otherwise, I'd suspect your Nissin is not getting the commander signal. This is all I can think of for now. Keep us posted of your findings.
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    Re: Flash Commander Mode - flash too late

    I am not familiar with the Nissin flash, so should keep quiet... but what slave mode are you choosing?

    The 622 manual (no page numbers) at Wireless Remote Flash indicates three modes, SD, SF, and Wireless.
    Instructions for setting modes is on next page.

    SD and SF are very incompatible with the Commander (they would trigger too early from the Commander). Wireless slave mode is said to work, but only as Channel 1 Group A (in the Commander).

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    Re: Flash Commander Mode - flash too late

    Tried the flash at 1/80, still nothing.

    I am in wireless. Only mode that triggers the flash. But it's triggering to late or early.

    Appreciating the help.

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    Re: Flash Commander Mode - flash too late

    Further testing with a long exposure I have figured out in commander mode my camera flash as the trigger and the Nissin remoted flash are both firing before the shutter opens.

    Not in commander mode the camera flash timing is correct.

    ​Any ideas?
    D5100, D7100, D600
    Lenses: Nikon DX 18-55mm, 55-200mm, 55-300mm, Tamron 200-500mm
    Prime: 35mm 1.8G AF-S & 50mm 1.8G AF-S FX
    Wide Angle: Tokina AT-X116 Pro DX-II 11-16mm f/2.8
    Macro: Nikon 40mm, Tamron 90mm
    ​Flash: SB400, Nissin MARK II Di622
    Filters: Polarizor, UV, Neutral Density (variable)
    Stuff: Expodisc Neutral & Portrait
    Bags: Lowepro SlingShot 202 AW Series, Lowepro Flipside Sport 20L AW
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    Re: Flash Commander Mode - flash too late

    Make sure you are in "normal" sync mode and not "rear" or "slow" sync mode.
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    Re: Flash Commander Mode - flash too late

    Quote Originally Posted by Moab Man View Post
    Further testing with a long exposure I have figured out in commander mode my camera flash as the trigger and the Nissin remoted flash are both firing before the shutter opens.

    Not in commander mode the camera flash timing is correct.

    ​Any ideas?

    I am still back on which slave mode? The only way the "commander could trigger the flash early" would be if the flash were incorrectly in SD or SF slave mode, instead of the wireless slave mode that knows how to decipher and respond to the commanders signals.

    I think you should double check the flash slave mode, make sure you understand how to set it.

    The commander certainly does flash commands before the shutter opens. It flashes a request for TTL preflash, and the remote flash should comply with preflash. Camera meters that preflash, and flashes a commander signal to set the remote TTL power level. Then the shutter opens, and the trigger signal is flashed, and then the flash flashes fully. The flash trigger mode should understand all of that.

    A flash in SD or SF slave modes (sometimes called S1 and S2 in other brands, simply a non-commander optical trigger) will trigger at the earliest of all this flashing, at the first flash seen, before the shutter opens, as you describe. This is a very common problem with optical slaves, they cannot work with the commander. The special wireless mode designed to work with the commander should work.

    Assuming the flash is flashing (early or not), I really cannot imagine any other possibility. Has it ever worked this way?

    EDIT: As a test of my theory and as a favor to me, try this one time test:

    Change the camera flash to NOT be Commander mode, but instead to be TTL or Manual flash mode. Does the same slave setting trigger then? If it is actually in the special wireless mode, it will not flash at all. If it is SD mode, it triggers in sync from TTL flash, and if SF mode, it triggers in sync from Manual mode.

    If it flashes at all, then its slave mode is NOT set right for the Commander. Wireless mode only responds to the encoded signals from the Commander. The other slave modes respond to any flash they see (takes two for SD mode, preflash and final flash)

    I think that is what you just said?
    Last edited by WayneF; 11-14-2013 at 04:37 AM.
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  8. #8
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    Re: Flash Commander Mode - flash too late

    Update

    I now have more questions than answers. Took my D7100 and the Nissin flash down to my local camera shop, We set up their 7100 and mine to all the same settings.

    On the Nissin flash there is only one mode that the flash will fire in, "SF." So we set the flash to this mode. Set both cameras side by side and firing one 7100 then the other. Both cameras triggered the Nissin and in both cases the flash is before the shutter opens.

    Next we pulled out a Nikon SB910. Set the flash selector to remote, group A, channel 1 - same as what we used to trigger the Nissin. All settings in both 7100's identical. My camera will not trigger the SB910 but the stores camera does.

    Doing more research. Trully baffled at this point and think my camera and this flash may both have an issue.

    ​Is the SB910 IR triggered or flash triggered?
    D5100, D7100, D600
    Lenses: Nikon DX 18-55mm, 55-200mm, 55-300mm, Tamron 200-500mm
    Prime: 35mm 1.8G AF-S & 50mm 1.8G AF-S FX
    Wide Angle: Tokina AT-X116 Pro DX-II 11-16mm f/2.8
    Macro: Nikon 40mm, Tamron 90mm
    ​Flash: SB400, Nissin MARK II Di622
    Filters: Polarizor, UV, Neutral Density (variable)
    Stuff: Expodisc Neutral & Portrait
    Bags: Lowepro SlingShot 202 AW Series, Lowepro Flipside Sport 20L AW
    ​Editing: Photoshop CS6, Nik Tools, Portrait Pro 12
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/122672034@N04/

  9. #9
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    Re: Flash Commander Mode - flash too late

    Quote Originally Posted by Moab Man View Post
    Update

    I now have more questions than answers. Took my D7100 and the Nissin flash down to my local camera shop, We set up their 7100 and mine to all the same settings.

    On the Nissin flash there is only one mode that the flash will fire in, "SF." So we set the flash to this mode. Set both cameras side by side and firing one 7100 then the other. Both cameras triggered the Nissin and in both cases the flash is before the shutter opens.

    Next we pulled out a Nikon SB910. Set the flash selector to remote, group A, channel 1 - same as what we used to trigger the Nissin. All settings in both 7100's identical. My camera will not trigger the SB910 but the stores camera does.

    Doing more research. Trully baffled at this point and think my camera and this flash may both have an issue.


    You did not say what the camera flash mode was? Manual flash, TTL flash, or Commander?

    SF mode simply triggers at the first flash it sees, of any kind. To work (affecting the picture), it has to be a manual flash trigger.

    The thing to understand is that there are three systems, and the triggering camera flash mode MUST match the remote triggered flash mode. Square pegs and round holes.

    Whether the Commander can trigger the wireless remote mode can also depend on distance and direct line of sight between them. Your test distance is probably close, so it may not matter. Normally at any distance more than 4 or 5 feet, the remote flash body must be turned so that its sensor aims toward the commander (else it cannot see the commander signals, which are weak, minimum power level).

    Workable combinations:

    1. Camera Manual flash and remote SF mode should work, easily.

    2. Camera TTL flash and remote SD mode should work, easily.

    Those two are simple optical slaves, and are only manual flash, so the remote flash must be in Manual flash mode. You set flash power directly in the flash menu. It probably flashes in TTL mode, but you cannot control its power level any way other than its own Manual mode menu.

    3. Camera Commander and remote Wireless mode should work (assuming Commander is set to channel 1 group A to match the flash - and that direct line of sight is sufficient to work.) (commander mode can be TTL or manual flash)

    No other combination will do anything useful. You don't mention any of these details.

    Camera Commander and remote SD or SF probably triggers, but too early, before shutter opens. Flashes, but not in sync, not useful at all to the picture. Seeing a flash is not enough, you also have to judge if it affected the picture.

    Remote Wireless mode and camera Manual or TTL ought not to trigger at all (at least if it were a Nikon flash, it would not). Wireless remote mode only understands commander signals, and then only those addressed to channel 1 group A.


    The way I read the Nissin manual, getting the flash into wireless mode seems a bit tricky (purple LED)- read that part again.


    All settings in both 7100's identical. My camera will not trigger the SB910 but the stores camera does.
    I'm hesitant to say anything, I doubt I understand the actual situation... but on the surface, that sounds bad for the camera. Except (if all things are equal) if the commander flash is firing at all, then the intelligence in there is just software, which does not go bad. Hardware goes bad.

    ​Is the SB910 IR triggered or flash triggered?


    Not the right question. It is both, triggered by the IR component of the commander flash. But the big deal is that the commander signal is several flashes of binary encoded numeric commands, not just a simple flash.

    The SD and SF slaves just see simple flashes (SD ignores first one, assuming that it is TTL preflash). Only the Wireless mode understands the Commanders complicated signals.

    Last edited by WayneF; 11-16-2013 at 04:54 PM.
    Moab Man likes this.





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