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  1. #1
    Senior Member
    BackdoorHippie's Avatar

    D7100 buffer size - it will fill in one second?!

    Interesting review from nature photographer Jason Odell. In it he manages to expose something that I looked for and couldn't find - one of the things I was sure Nikon would make sure they didn't let happen...

    Frame Buffer: Ok, I had to dig around to find this, as it isn’t on Nikon USA’s website. It is, however in the specs at Nikon.com. The D7100 frame buffer is 6 lossless-compressed 14-bit NEFs, or 7 lossless compressed 12-bit NEFs. That’s really tough to swallow for a camera touted as being fast. I’m afraid that almost kills the D7100 as a birding camera for me.


    Pardon me but, "Sonofabitch!!!" It sounds like they upped the sensor size by 33% over the D7000, but kept the same freaking buffer - one that was already too small!! On the D7000, I get about 8 or 9 frames before it starts barfing. Get an eagle flying at you and you'll chew those frames up in 1.5 seconds, and then if you've got a real fast card you'll wait a second and then be lucky to get 1-2 fps after that. With the bigger images you'll fill your buffer in 1 second. ONE SECOND!!! Are they kidding?! If I choose the 1.3x crop then I can get 8, or 12 if I shoot 12-bit, so that's another whole second. It's likely that I'll use one of the User settings specifically for birds in flight, so it becomes less cumbersome to think about changing your resolution settings every time you're aiming at a hawk. But to have do it just so I can get the camera to perform as well as the D7000, which has been knocked for this limitation since it came out, doesn't sit well.

    Now some of you will simply say, "Then don't shoot RAW and you'll never have to worry about it." Well, without the anti-aliasing filter there's more of a need to shoot RAW to perform proper sharpening. For gun enthusiasts, it would be like having a significant automatic weapon and a 6 round clip. Or putting a 65mph speed limiter on a Corvette. Crazy!!

    I need to pour myself a glass of something and slowly ponder this thing again. Not sure how I missed it the first time out, but the idea of this as my wildlife camera is what made me decide not to go with a second FX camera. And while it's by no means a one trick pony, Nikon managed to limit the one trick I really care about. And they limited it to the extent that I'm seriously considering cancelling the order and reassessing a D800 (where I'll get ~16 lossless RAW images in FX mode buffer) or a second D600 (where I get about the same, and over 30 if I shoot cropped).


    › See More: D7100 buffer size - it will fill in one second?!
    Last edited by BackdoorHippie; 02-23-2013 at 08:34 PM.
    Likes RockyNH, Pierro, Rick M liked this post

    Jake

    Hippies Must Use Back Door ... No Exceptions

    Bodies: D800, D600, D7000 IR 720nm Conversion, D90
    Lenses: FX - Nikon G-series: 28+50+85mm f/1.8, 16-35mm f/4, 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5, 24-120mm f/4, 70-200mm f/4
    Sigma: 15mm f/2.8 Fisheye, 105mm f/2.8 macro, 150-500mm f/5-6.3
    DX - Nikon 18-105mm, Sigma 8-16mm f/4.5-5.6, Rokinon 8mm f/3.5
    Flickr... http://www.flickr.com/photos/backdoorhippie/



  2. #2
    Senior Member
    RockyNH's Avatar

    re: D7100 buffer size - it will fill in one second?!

    Ouch... I did not realize that either (though it is probably less of an issue for me). Goo dluck on having to re-visit all the research/decisions you just made.. that has to be a pain.. Good luck sorting it out Jake!

    Pat in NH
    "You cannot finish if you don't Start!"
    Nikon: D5100 w/grip, D7100 w/grip
    18-105mm
    AF-S VR f/3.5-5.6 , 55-300mm AF-S VR f/4.5-5.6
    35mm AF-s f/1.8, 50mm AF-s f/1.8
    Tokina 12-24mm, Sigma 105mm Macro

    Visit my Photo Website - http://www.patrickmcghie.com

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  3. #3
    Always travelling
    Scott Murray's Avatar

    re: D7100 buffer size - it will fill in one second?!

    Here are the specs from that site.

    Approximate frame advance rate
    • JPEG and 12-bit NEF (RAW) images recorded with DX (24x16) selected for image area: CL 1 to 6 fps, CH 6 fps
    • JPEG and 12-bit NEF (RAW) images recorded with 1.3x (18x12) selected for image area: CL 1 to 6 fps, CH 7 fps
    • 14-bit NEF (RAW) images recorded with DX (24x16) selected for image area: CL 1 to 5 fps, CH 5 fps
    • 14-bit NEF (RAW) images recorded with 1.3x (18x12) selected for image area: CL 1 to 6 fps, CH 6 fps

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Pierro's Avatar

    re: D7100 buffer size - it will fill in one second?!

    Ok, its FX I know , but the D3S has the buffer mutha of all muthas. What a birding camera

    RAW: 40 shots 12 bit uncompressed .... 36 shots 14 bit uncompressed
    Pete
    RSPB supporting member & Dogs Trust supporting member
    D300 + 70-210 f4 AF + 35-105 AF macro + 105 Ais + 20mm Ais + Manfrotto & Giottos


    Give a poor man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a poor man a bank and he can rob everyone



  5. #5
    Senior Member
    BackdoorHippie's Avatar

    re: D7100 buffer size - it will fill in one second?!

    The thing is it's not like I was complaining about frames per second. 6 fps is more than fine. I'd even take 4 for my purposes. But to give you a buffer that can't handle more than 6 RAW images is obscene. Particularly, as is pointed out so well in the review, that this is supposed to be the flagship of the DX line. The only thing that has me from running away screaming is the price point. Tack another couple hundred dollars on this camera and it's almost a joke to do what they did. And for absolutely every other use the specs are amazing. I just can't fathom why Nikon not only wouldn't address something that the camera's predecessor was getting knocked for 2 years ago, but exacerbated the problem by using the same small buffer and increasing the file size.
    Jake

    Hippies Must Use Back Door ... No Exceptions

    Bodies: D800, D600, D7000 IR 720nm Conversion, D90
    Lenses: FX - Nikon G-series: 28+50+85mm f/1.8, 16-35mm f/4, 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5, 24-120mm f/4, 70-200mm f/4
    Sigma: 15mm f/2.8 Fisheye, 105mm f/2.8 macro, 150-500mm f/5-6.3
    DX - Nikon 18-105mm, Sigma 8-16mm f/4.5-5.6, Rokinon 8mm f/3.5
    Flickr... http://www.flickr.com/photos/backdoorhippie/

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    BackdoorHippie's Avatar

    re: D7100 buffer size - it will fill in one second?!

    Quote Originally Posted by muzza22au View Post
    Here are the specs from that site.
    Approximate frame advance rate
    • JPEG and 12-bit NEF (RAW) images recorded with DX (24x16) selected for image area: CL 1 to 6 fps, CH 6 fps
    • JPEG and 12-bit NEF (RAW) images recorded with 1.3x (18x12) selected for image area: CL 1 to 6 fps, CH 7 fps
    • 14-bit NEF (RAW) images recorded with DX (24x16) selected for image area: CL 1 to 5 fps, CH 5 fps
    • 14-bit NEF (RAW) images recorded with 1.3x (18x12) selected for image area: CL 1 to 6 fps, CH 6 fps
    And those are the obvious specs. What it doesn't give you is this (column to the far right), which is nowhere to be found on the Nikon USA site...

    Memory card capacity The following table shows the approximate number of pictures that can be stored on an 8 GB SanDisk Extreme Pro SDHC UHS-I card at different image quality, image size and image area settings.

    DX (24x16) image area


    Image quality Image size File size*1 No. of images*1 Buffer capacity*2
    NEF (RAW), Lossless compressed, 12-bit - 22.7 MB 191 7
    NEF (RAW), Lossless compressed, 14-bit - 28.5 MB 148 6
    NEF (RAW), Compressed, 12-bit - 20.2 MB 260 9
    NEF (RAW), Compressed, 14-bit - 24.9 MB 217 8
    JPEG fine*3 Large Medium Small 12.0 MB 7.4 MB 3.8 MB 507 853 1600 33 100 100
    JPEG normal*3 Large Medium Small 6.2 MB 3.7 MB 1.9 MB 1000 1600 3200 100 100 100
    JPEG basic*3 Large Medium Small 2.9 MB 1.9 MB 1.0 MB 1900 3200 6000 100 100 100

    1.3x (18x12) image area


    Image quality Image size File size*1 No. of images*1 Buffer capacity*2
    NEF (RAW), Lossless compressed, 12-bit - 15.1 MB 295 12
    NEF (RAW), Lossless compressed, 14-bit - 18.8 MB 229 8
    NEF (RAW), Compressed, 12-bit - 13.4 MB 399 14
    NEF (RAW), Compressed, 14-bit - 16.3 MB 334 11
    JPEG fine*3 Large Medium Small 8.2 MB 5.0 MB 2.7 MB 764 1200 2200 73 100 100
    JPEG normal*3 Large Medium Small 4.1 MB 2.5 MB 1.4 MB 1500 2400 4400 100 100 100
    JPEG basic*3 Large Medium Small 2.0 MB 1.3 MB 0.7 MB 2900 4600 8000 100 100 100

    *1 All figures are approximate. File size varies with scene recorded.
    *2 Maximum number of exposures that can be stored in memory buffer at ISO 100. Drops if optimal quality is selected for JPEG compression, ISO sensitivity is set to Hi 0.3 or higher, or long exposure noise reduction or auto distortion control is on.
    *3 Figures assume JPEG compression is set to Size priority. Selecting optimal quality increases the file size of JPEG images; number of images and buffer capacity drop accordingly.
    Last edited by BackdoorHippie; 02-23-2013 at 08:59 PM.
    Jake

    Hippies Must Use Back Door ... No Exceptions

    Bodies: D800, D600, D7000 IR 720nm Conversion, D90
    Lenses: FX - Nikon G-series: 28+50+85mm f/1.8, 16-35mm f/4, 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5, 24-120mm f/4, 70-200mm f/4
    Sigma: 15mm f/2.8 Fisheye, 105mm f/2.8 macro, 150-500mm f/5-6.3
    DX - Nikon 18-105mm, Sigma 8-16mm f/4.5-5.6, Rokinon 8mm f/3.5
    Flickr... http://www.flickr.com/photos/backdoorhippie/

  7. #7
    Always travelling
    Scott Murray's Avatar

    re: D7100 buffer size - it will fill in one second?!

    Well there is a bit of leeway by the sounds as this is based at ISO 100, normally for a BIF shot you would be using ISO 400 to keep your shutter speed up. So hopefully it does meet your expectations in FPS at a higher ISO.

    *2 Maximum number of exposures that can be stored in memory buffer at ISO 100.




  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Sambr's Avatar

    re: D7100 buffer size - it will fill in one second?!

    I noticed it right away, the buffer issue was my concern right from the start.
    Sam

    .......and God said "let there be light" with those words photographers were created.

    Don't get confused between my personality and my attitude. My personality is who I am, my attitude depends on who you are.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    BackdoorHippie's Avatar

    re: D7100 buffer size - it will fill in one second?!

    Quote Originally Posted by muzza22au View Post
    Well there is a bit of leeway by the sounds as this is based at ISO 100, normally for a BIF shot you would be using ISO 400 to keep your shutter speed up. So hopefully it does meet your expectations in FPS at a higher ISO.

    *2 Maximum number of exposures that can be stored in memory buffer at ISO 100.

    ISO 100 is native ISO, which is why it's quoted. Buffer capacity is based on capacity in MB's and ISO 400 won't buy you anything with regard to file size. If nothing else, birds in flight are shot against a largely monochromatic background, so you can sometimes squeeze an extra click in before it barfs.

    Sambr, I'm curious as to where you saw your information, because this is the first thing I've read that mentions anything about buffer size. All I ever read was fps numbers and file sizes, but nothing to do with buffer size, which is what throttles (or chokes) this bad boy.

    As of 5PM, I'm 95% sure I'll be cancelling my order on Monday morning and buying a D800. I get everything it offers, plus what the D7100 offered at normal crop without buffer clogging (in fact, I can go 5+ seconds at DX if I'd like before it barfs). If Nikon wants to draw the line it looks like I'm gonna need to cross it.
    Jake

    Hippies Must Use Back Door ... No Exceptions

    Bodies: D800, D600, D7000 IR 720nm Conversion, D90
    Lenses: FX - Nikon G-series: 28+50+85mm f/1.8, 16-35mm f/4, 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5, 24-120mm f/4, 70-200mm f/4
    Sigma: 15mm f/2.8 Fisheye, 105mm f/2.8 macro, 150-500mm f/5-6.3
    DX - Nikon 18-105mm, Sigma 8-16mm f/4.5-5.6, Rokinon 8mm f/3.5
    Flickr... http://www.flickr.com/photos/backdoorhippie/

  10. #10
    Senior Member

    re: D7100 buffer size - it will fill in one second?!

    well,, too bad they don't have like an option there.. where you could buy the bigger buffer like a 7100S for say 200 dollars more, and a buffer of say 20,,

    but, this does seem to be a Nikon trend,, to keep the cameras from eating the more expensive camera models markets.

    now, realize, that the buffer fills up fast on the D800 too.. I get about 15 shots in burst before it begins to crawl, tried it right now, yup, my D800 got 15 shots in before choking, but 15 is just enougy I suspect, and I agree, 5 fps is good enough in my book.

    actually,, ok, I confess, I love the D800,, so, if you can afford it,, I say go for it. Reason, I feel no urge to upgrade my D7000, is well, the D800 does 80% of all my photos. Only time I use the other comeras is when I want a lighter body, or just have one my backpack when I am up and about, and I want to make sure the camera is around.





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