Super Cheapo Speedlight

I'm going to be taking pictures for my friends at their rehearsal dinner that is in a dimly lit restaurant space. I was hoping to use a speedlight to bounce the flash off of the ceiling to save people's eyes and to make better pictures. I can either rent a good one, or buy this:

Amazon.com: Neewer TT560 Flash Speedlite for Canon Nikon Sony Panasonic Olympus Fujifilm Pentax Sigma Minolta Leica and Other SLR Digital SLR Film SLR Cameras and Digital Cameras with single-contact Hot Shoe: Camera & Photo

Reviews seem good. I see that it is manual only, does this mean my camera has to be in manual mode? What do you guys think?

This is also a contender
http://www.amazon.com/Yongnuo-Professional-Speedlight-Flashlight-Olympus/dp/B00BXA7N6A/ref=pd_cp_p_1

That one is an extremely good bargain, but no, Manual flash means the flash is in manual mode, not the camera. The camera can optionally be in manual mode too, but this is about the flash mode.

TTL flash is automatic point&shoot flash, so to speak. The camera meters and adjusts the flash power, automatically.

In manual flash mode, you set the flash power level to like perhaps 1/2 power. Then it does half power. Regardless what it needs to be. Manual means it is YOU that determines what correct flash level should be .... for every picture.


These two, Neewer and Yonngnu 560 models, are both manual flash.

The Yongnuo YN565EX is also automatic TTL flash, for not greatly more money (currently $104 at Amazon, but price varies frequently).

See Beginners Guide to Select a Hot Shoe Flash

WayneF said:

That one is an extremely good bargain, but no, Manual flash means the flash is in manual mode, not the camera. The camera can optionally be in manual mode too, but this is about the flash mode.

TTL flash is automatic point&shoot flash, so to speak. The camera meters and adjusts the flash power, automatically.

In manual flash mode, you set the flash power level to like perhaps 1/2 power. Then it does half power. Regardless what it needs to be. Manual means it is YOU that determines what correct flash level should be .... for every picture.


These two, Neewer and Yonngnu 560 models, are both manual flash.

The Yongnuo YN565EX is also automatic TTL flash, for not greatly more money (currently $104 at Amazon, but price varies frequently).

See Beginners Guide to Select a Hot Shoe Flash

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Thanks! Is that one Nikon or Canon specific?

Evacares said:

Thanks! Is that one Nikon or Canon specific?

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Either Nikon or Canon, you buy the one you want. See Review of the Yongnuo YN565EX Speedlight

Yep. Find a TTL compatible flash/speedlight.

Flashes Forum

WayneF said:

Either Nikon or Canon, you buy the one you want. See Review of the Yongnuo YN565EX Speedlight

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Thanks, I went with that one. It seems like a good deal. I would have spent close to that renting a nikon speedlight for long enough to learn how to use it before the event. One of the reviews for the $40 Neewer one mentioned that it set itself on fire. No thanks!

I think those guides will help when I get it. I'm so bad with the techie stuff. I just know that I want to bounce it off the ceiling.

Evacares said:

I think those guides will help when I get it. I'm so bad with the techie stuff. I just know that I want to bounce it off the ceiling.

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The YN565EX is as fully powered as any, but restaurants are not known for having bounceable ceilings. Often the ceilings are high and/or dark.

For a common white 12 foot acoustic tile ceiling (typical commercial rooms), ISO 400 and f/4 ought to work with TTL bounce.

WayneF said:

The YN565EX is as fully powered as any, but restaurants are not known for having bounceable ceilings. Often the ceilings are high and/or dark.

For a common white 12 foot acoustic tile ceiling (typical commercial rooms), ISO 400 and f/4 ought to work with TTL bounce.

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I've been trying to find pictures of the private dining space, but too many come up from the main restaurant. Its in a separate building that has a grocery area. I'm hoping that the ceiling is the same in the private dining. I think the actual room is the first pic, but does not show the ceiling

Evacares said:

Thanks, I went with that one. It seems like a good deal. I would have spent close to that renting a nikon speedlight for long enough to learn how to use it before the event. One of the reviews for the $40 Neewer one mentioned that it set itself on fire. No thanks!

I think those guides will help when I get it. I'm so bad with the techie stuff. I just know that I want to bounce it off the ceiling.

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Take the reviews with a grain a salt. many times I believe its people who are just unhappy but exaggerate. many times its competitors of those who sell them, and many times its the competitors bad mouthing one another. on the internet, anyone can be anyone...I dont believe 50% of what I read on the net.

I can vouch for the Yongnuo 565EX. Excellent flash for the money. Where I live, it cost me $170.

rocketman122 said:

Take the reviews with a grain a salt. many times I believe its people who are just unhappy but exaggerate. many times its competitors of those who sell them, and many times its the competitors bad mouthing one another. on the internet, anyone can be anyone...I dont believe 50% of what I read on the net.

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Agreed.

My two $40 Neewer speedlights have yet to set themselves on fire BTW

I just got the yn565ex in the mail. I'm finding the manual to be pretty confusing but also amusing, obviously written by someone in China. Use the bounce-card for charming eyes! I need help with the basics and setting this up on my D3100. I've been googling and watching youtube videos, but haven't found anything useful. Does anyone have any links saved?

I've been reading over it, I had it saved from when I started the thread. I guess what I'm looking for is a super dummy guide style video or how to write up with my specific camera.

I've already given my husband a headache trying it out on him. I thought that bouncing the flash wasn't supposed to bother people's eyes? I have one week to figure out how to use this thing.

What nikon speedlight model does this most closely copy? Maybe I could have better luck youtubing that.

Evacares said:

I've been reading over it, I had it saved from when I started the thread. I guess what I'm looking for is a super dummy guide style video or how to write up with my specific camera.

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I guess I don't quite understand the question, what you are wanting to see? Any specific questions? I really don't think camera model affects it, however those cameras with Commander can use its remote SL mode.

For hot shoe flash, you mentioned bounce, so just aim the flash head up, at a near-white ceiling, at maybe not higher than a 12 foot ceiling, 8 or 10 feet ceilings easiest.

Normally, pull out the bounce card, at least for live subjects.

Use camera mode A or M.

Start at ISO 400, f/5 (meaning turn off Auto ISO - unless maybe you have a newer model that will limit ISO to 400 when flash is used).

Don't stand too close, 6 or 8 feet. Zoom in all you want.

Press shutter button.

Here is the trick: If using TTL, then just use camera Flash Compensation as necessary, for +/- changes to existing exposure, to make it be perfect. Flash Compensation is how we control TTL flash. This will be become second nature fast, rather easy.

For good bounce flash methods, see http://neilvn.com/tangents/
specifically the blue section down lower in right margin called Articles - specifically those numbered 01 - 17
This is not for newbie beginners, it is easy, but it is for those that want to improve their flash pictures (and think about it a slight bit). Some of the best stuff on the web, and his books are good too.

With just a slight bit of experience, enough to realize we can actually look at our picture results, and think about it a bit, then we have graduated from newbie beginner.

I'd mention my own stuff in my sig, but it is more explanation of basics, not really newbie beginner either.

Thanks for the write up and link!

I was about 2 feet away, opps. Should I only use my 55-300 lens for the event since I should be at least 6 feet away?

I can't find any menus on my D3100 for the external flash to change use the flash off camera. I probably don't need that for now, but it frustrated me.

Is this the same issue as the wireless remote not working on the D3100 but it works on the 3000 and basically everything else?

Evacares said:

Thanks for the write up and link!

I was about 2 feet away, opps. Should I only use my 55-300 lens for the event since I should be at least 6 feet away?

I can't find any menus on my D3100 for the external flash to change use the flash off camera. I probably don't need that for now, but it frustrated me.

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Two feet may be fine for macro-ish pictures of tabletop shots and things, but it is way too close for pictures of people. For a couple of reasons. One, simple photographic perspective needs to be back 6 or 8 feet (perspective, to avoid making noses look too large, etc - first rule of portraits - stand back a bit). And bounce needs the angle to let the ceiling reflection get in a bit, to light the front side of the face (and eye sockets) a bit. Bounce card also helps this. Zooming in is no problem, but standing too close is a problem.

Which lens is only dependent on what view you want to see from that 6 or 8 foot distance. If you want head and shoulders portrait, probably about 70mm for DX - at that distance. If you want a full length standing portrait, or a group of a dozen people, then the lens focal length has to be much shorter to get it all in.

There are no camera menus for external flash. The camera menu for flash only affects the internal flash, when its door is open. It is out of play if the door is shut. The external flash has its own menu (SB-300/SB-400 are exceptions, they have no menu, and use the same camera menu).

Just set camera exposure mode to A (aperture) or M (manual). The TTL flash is still automatic flash in camera M mode, but M mode lets you specify shutter speed too (which is only about the ambient contribution... you can keep out the orange incandescent light with fast shutter speed, or let it in with slower shutter.)

If you use camera A mode, indoor shutter speed is most likely 1/60 second default (a minimum with flash), but Rear Curtain or Slow Sync can override that.

The menu I was looking for is bracketing/flash where you set the channel to use the speedlight off camera, to trigger it by the on-camera flash. I know that the d3100 doesn't do bracketing, so that menu is missing. Does this mean I can only use it on camera?

Evacares said:

The menu I was looking for is bracketing/flash where you set the channel to use the speedlight off camera, to trigger it by the on-camera flash. I know that the d3100 doesn't do bracketing, so that menu is missing. Does this mean I can only use it on camera?

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I think you mean remote (off-camera) flash with Commander, but the D3100 does not have the Commander to make that possible. The SL slave mode, including Channel 1-4 and Group A, B, C, is only for the Commander. D7100 and up models have the commander.

Someone will mention it, so I might as well too. Some flashes (SB-700, SB-800, SB-900) also have a commander in them... One of them on the hot shoe can be a commander for the D3100, and can control remote flashes, including the YN565EX in SL slave mode. However, the dirty part is that the Commander also needs the FV Lock feature to prevent pictures of the subject blinking, and only camera models with a Commander have that feature. There is a SU-800 commander (without its own flash) which uses infrared to minimize this blinking, but the remote TTL preflashes can still cause blinking.

Your D3100 choices are hot shoe flash (either TTL or Manual flash mode).
This can include a hot shoe extension cord, Nikon SC-28 cord, but these are relatively short.

Or off-camera flash only in Manual flash mode, in three ways:

1. Using Yongnuo S1 slave mode. Then the flash from any other Manual flash will trigger it. Which could be the camera internal flash, either also contributing light into the picture, or set to a very low power level so it won't affect the picture much, but should still trigger the flash. On the Yongnuo, the sensor is on the front of the flash. The flash head swivels, so you can rotate the front of the body towards camera to see the slave trigger, and the flash head at the subject.

Or, 2 & 3, off camera flash could use a radio trigger or a PC sync cord, both are Manual flash mode.

No blinking problem with Manual flash in these three ways.

The speedlight worked out great. Thanks guys! I would definitely recommend it to anyone looking for a cheaper speedlight. Here are a few shots. Doing another friends rehearsal dinner tonight.