What defines a "professional" photographer

KennethHamlett

New member
I have pretty high standards when it comes to business ethics. I like to think I'm more old fashioned than most, a benefit of having grown up in a small town where life is lived just a little bit slower. That said, I'm also a staunch believer in free enterprise and capitalism. I don't believe in being owed a living, handouts, bailouts, or other such nonsense. A man makes his own way in the world, sink or swim. I fully understand that in the situation I described in this thread, I am asking to impede on someone else's time, and is completely separate from what is detailed below.

I have seen several comments on this and other photography-related forums that more or less put pro photographers in a bad light...at least in my opinion. Topics very much like this one are often hot debates where it's pros vs. joes. Statements similar to these are constantly at the forefront of this battle on the side of the pros:

  • I have invested $______ in time/gear over the years.
  • I have a family to feed.
  • This is my business/only means of making money.
  • The competition's prices are too low.
  • I own the rights to this/that/everything else. Pay me.
  • I can't make money in this economy.
There are dozens of others. Point blank, I have to say...so what? ABC Widget Co. has been around for 20 years. They make a decent product and charge a fair price. XYZ Gadget Co. comes along, makes a better product, and charges less. ABC Widget Co. has a choice: either adapt or go out of business, it's really that simple. So can someone explain to me why pro photographers (by and large) believe they are exempt from the rules of business?

On the contrary, as a pro photographer we realize how much we are subject to the rules of business just like any other type of business. Digital photography has erased the barrier between the pro/amateur in terms of getting a good exposure (yet some camera owners still can't get it right) but a properly exposed image does not make a photograph that has commercial appeal. Photographers that shoot weddings, portraits and other similar work should feel threatened. Any Joe or Jane with a digital camera can now take a decent shot or two that's good enough for the average consumer. Photographer's that shoot other types of commercial work are less threatened by these camera owners. What separates a pro from an amateur is no longer a matter of equipment or even skill (some amateurs take better photographs than some professionals). What truly separates the two comes down to the following six "value-added" services as described in the ASMP Professional Business Practices in Photography handbook.

1. Unique imagery - the photographer's vision.
2. The ability to fulfill the client's particular and specific image needs. The photographer successfully produces images for the specific project.
3. Client protection - this includes having liability insurance, using the correct licensing paperwork and getting the proper releases--model, property etc. The professional photographer saves the client from legal headaches.
4. Tailored licensing - the professional customizes the licensing requirements to fit the specific needs of the client.
5. Customer service professionalism from start to finish.
6. Digital expertise - the professional adheres to industry standard best practices and consistently delivers quality images.

Anyway, I think we have really gone off topic with this post. Anthony you obviously understand the situation better than any of us and I believe that you will handle it appropriately.

Let's end the amateur/pro conversation on this thread. I'll open another thread strictly for that discussion.
 

jdeg

^ broke something
Staff member
That's a really good question. I've seen so-called professional's work before that I've thought to myself 'I can do better than that'. I totally agree that just because you have a D3 and a plethora of lenses, doesn't make you a professional photographer. It's like saying that if you own a high end Ferrari, that makes you a professional race car driver.
 

Browncoat

Senior Member
Very good points, jdeg. I agree completely. But even more than that, I don't think that having a DBA or studio automatically makes one a professional either.

In my opinion, there are a lot of pros who have a sense of entitlement, like this guy. His article echos the sentiments of many pros who think amateurs are hurting their business. They believe they are owed a living and that everyone with a DSLR should charge money for the work they do or they're stealing bread from someone's table or tainting the industry as a whole. They subscribe to overreaching intellectual property rights, such as owning a particular scene, or even Photoshop actions. It's ridiculous.

Honestly, I don't see anything in that value-added listing that an amateur couldn't provide also.
 
Unfortunately, I think the very people who should be supporting professional photographers are the very ones who are helping destroy the craft.

The typical, NON-photographer really can't tell what makes a quality image. They are easily swayed by emotion, by the energy created by the person giving the picture to them.
Details that are important to photographers (eyes open, facial expression, lighting/exposure/shadows, and other technical details) are not necessarily noticed by the average consumer.

I'm not here to say that John Q. Camera can't focus on these details and get them correct - especially with all the technology assistance that is being packed into today's cameras.
 

Carolina Photo Guy

Senior Member
WOW! It seems that everyone has an idea as to what denotes a "Professional" photographer. It also seems that every idea is diametrically opposed to every other idea, or at the least, carefully nuanced. Instead, why not define "photographer". That seems to be the needed definition here, not the "professional" part.

Simplistically, a photographer is.....
Anyone that takes photographs?

Nonsense. That would include every 2 year old that snaps a picture.

I have no answer. But, then again, I am dumb as a brick. Everything I know about photography is self taught. I've had to learn just about everything in an informational vacuum.
This is, by no means, an excuse for my poor techniques. Instead, take this as a reason, and judge appropriately.
But until you define what a "photographer" is, you will NEVER figure out what a "professional photographer" is.

Pete
 

Browncoat

Senior Member
I think you may be on the right path, Pete. Photography is an art form, and the masses have been trying to nail down a definition of art for generations. It still can't be done, because art is subjective. In a sense, we're trying to differentiate between a professional and amateur artist here. Perhaps the word "commercial" or "commissioned" would be more applicable?

Do we call Picasso a professional artist? No. How about Ansel Adams...the father of modern photography? Despite all his achievements, I don't recall ever hearing of him being labeled as a professional. More or less, it's an industry driven designation with marketing in mind, and nothing more. "Hi, I'm Bill Snapshot, professional photographer. You don't want John Q. Camera to do your family portraits, he's only an amateur."

I don't really see any other way to look at it. You're a pro photographer when you choose to label yourself as one. There is no achievement, gear, education, or assignment that a pro does that an amateur can not also do. Zero.
 

Carolina Photo Guy

Senior Member
I'll go with that. Simply because, in photography as in EVERY other profession, there are the really bad and the really good. In the forensic pathology field, google Dr Fahmy Malik and Dr Cyril Wecht. Both are professionals in that field. Both are acclaimed in vastly differing directions.
I am far too old to reach the summit of photographic acclaim. I know that. But I WOULD like to get out of the amateur range BEFORE I bite the big one again.

Only time will tell and time is against me.

Pete
 

Carolina Photo Guy

Senior Member
April 4th, 2008. I was at work when I felt a little "funny". Having been an Army medic back in the day, I recognized the beginning symptoms of a heart attack. I called my boss, told him I needed to go to the emergency room.
911 may be cool in the movies, but if you really want help, you go get it.
Anyway, as we got to the hospital, I died. Flat line, doa, the whole 9 yards.
There was a surgical team in the ER waiting for some guy to be transported in by meatwagon for a triple bypass. I had the same blood type and so I was in surgery within 5 minutes.
I died 13 more times before the surgery was finished. They zapped me so many times that I had burn marks on my chest.
I had a quad bypass with two stents and my wife was told that I probably would not live through the night. If I did live, I would probably have fairly extensive brain damage.
We are still undecided about the brain damage, but I lived.
THAT is the big one that I talk about.

I no longer fear death, we have become good friends. But that also means that I am impatient about learning everything.

And THAT, is the rest of the story.

Pete

ps;
I was written up in 2 local medical journals as the luckiest man still alive.
 

ohkphoto

Snow White
OMG, Pete! What a story! I'd like to talk to you some more but think it's probably not on the topic of this thread. Can I private message you?
 

ohkphoto

Snow White
Unfortunately, I think the very people who should be supporting professional photographers are the very ones who are helping destroy the craft.

The typical, NON-photographer really can't tell what makes a quality image. They are easily swayed by emotion, by the energy created by the person giving the picture to them.
Details that are important to photographers (eyes open, facial expression, lighting/exposure/shadows, and other technical details) are not necessarily noticed by the average consumer.

I'm not here to say that John Q. Camera can't focus on these details and get them correct - especially with all the technology assistance that is being packed into today's cameras.

There's a lot of wisdom in this post. What did Shakespeare say? . . . "a rose by any other name is still a rose."

And, as a side note, if you don't think copyright and intellectual property should matter, try copying a photo off the NTGEO site and posting it (without appropriate credit) on your own site. (Just for clarification, I have NOT tried this.) But then this goes to a whole other topic.

I like Pete's idea of defining "photographer" --but going even a step further. Why do you call yourself a photographer? what makes you want to pick up your camera and shoot? what sets you apart from the masses, the "snapshooters", because I think those are the real categories. Photographers or snapshooters. Pro or amateur is really a moot point. Just my humble opinion.
 

Browncoat

Senior Member
That's incredible, Pete! As Paul Harvey would say....and now you know the rest of the story. Thanks for sharing it with us!

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.
 

pjl

Senior Member
'Professionals' and technology:

As Pete said: ...”EVERY other profession”...
The professional buggy-whip makers cried foul when Henry Ford came around.
REAL fountain pens?
Ball points killed 'em. Now relegated to 'classic' hobbyist sites.

Camera stores/chains are vaporizing. (Ritz Camera)
Newspapers are drifting away.
Film?
I remember that stuff...
The 'professional film photographers' are a vanishing breed.
They ain't happy.
Film dev/print shops?
Dunno; seems like a bunch still exist locally, but it can't be great times.

Digital technology has made it possible for Joe Shmoe to take decent/good/great pics.
The high and mighty pros call foul.
You either change up or vanish.
The advancement of tech has made it possible to FIND a 'niche' market and work it.
It's no longer limited to hired stringers for the rags or paparazzi with F3's.

If you can find a market that gives you some jing in your pocket, you can be as professional as you desire.
Coffee cups, buttons, calendars, gift cards, team sports, dog parks, skate parks, motocross parks, canvassed prints, blah blah blah...
(I didn't include HDR, as I've seen some considered 'popular' that remind me of hawking those metallicized prints back in the 70's...;) I've seen some stunning HDR though, I just haven't gone that far yet.)
I've seen shots from guys who have a whole van set up for mobile photo shoots/printing that I'd consider professional if I was in that market.
I'd buy their pics.
Killboy (?) has motorcycle pics shot on the Dragon that sell well; how 'bout that niche?

Sooooo, how do you go about 'becoming' a professional?


(I have more, but thought I'd get some answers first.:cool:)

Pat
 

Carolina Photo Guy

Senior Member
'Professionals' and technology:



Sooooo, how do you go about 'becoming' a professional?


(I have more, but thought I'd get some answers first.:cool:)

Pat


Easy Peasy.

Just print up some business cards and by proxy, you are a "professional".
Your business card shows that you are in a business, hence a profession.
Ain't life grand?

$1.30 from Staples for blanks and a cheap inkjet printer.

And an EMPIRE is born!!!

Pete
 

KennethHamlett

New member
April 4th, 2008. I was at work when I felt a little "funny". Having been an Army medic back in the day, I recognized the beginning symptoms of a heart attack. I called my boss, told him I needed to go to the emergency room.
911 may be cool in the movies, but if you really want help, you go get it.
Anyway, as we got to the hospital, I died. Flat line, doa, the whole 9 yards.
There was a surgical team in the ER waiting for some guy to be transported in by meatwagon for a triple bypass. I had the same blood type and so I was in surgery within 5 minutes.
I died 13 more times before the surgery was finished. They zapped me so many times that I had burn marks on my chest.
I had a quad bypass with two stents and my wife was told that I probably would not live through the night. If I did live, I would probably have fairly extensive brain damage.
We are still undecided about the brain damage, but I lived.
THAT is the big one that I talk about.

I no longer fear death, we have become good friends. But that also means that I am impatient about learning everything.

And THAT, is the rest of the story.

Pete

ps;
I was written up in 2 local medical journals as the luckiest man still alive.

OK, Pete is the man and whatever else was said in this post no longer matters. What Pete says is GOLDEN!! Pro - schmoe...let's just all go out and take some pictures!
 

pjl

Senior Member
Dang, Pete!
Them's some SERIOUS braggin' rights to the cussed determination of an Army medic. ;)

re: cards:
Hehehe; guess I'm an uuuuber Pro then!
I've run through 1 $20 box (cut & box next day) from Office Max.
This Empire is goin' through post partum depression...:rolleyes:
 

Carolina Photo Guy

Senior Member
There is no "cussed determination" my friend. If you think about it, the other options kinda sucked!

re: cards:

Very UUUUUBER Pro!!! You had SOMEBODY else do the work!!!

I'm impressed. I had to print my own.

Pete
 

Browncoat

Senior Member
I hate to cross-post between threads, but since this is a bit of a crossover between topics anyway...here goes:

You may remember reading about my original dilemma. Today was the famed "soccer shoot" and just as we left the house, it began to rain. There was a backup plan in place in case of rain, but as we drove by the assigned place, no one was there. We went to the original location, and much to my surprise, there they were...in the rain.

There was a small shelter house where all the parents and kids (about 100+ people) were crammed together. There were two photographers and two assistants, and the cameras were set up underneath the cover. Obviously no one could stand in front of the camera, so everyone was huddled up under half of the shelter house. The cameras were aimed outside, and sure enough, they were shooting the kids outside in the rain.

Most of the kids had wet uniforms. All the little girls had wet, matted-down hair. Meanwhile, disgruntled parents are looking on with photo packet and pre-paid check in hand. I never even got my camera out of the car.

I learned a valuable lesson here, and can now answer the question: What defines a "professional" photographer. The answer is simple...professionalism. The dictionary defines this word as: Practices, methods, or spirit that are distinguished from an amateur.

Your thoughts?
 

Carolina Photo Guy

Senior Member
I learned a valuable lesson here, and can now answer the question: What defines a "professional" photographer. The answer is simple...professionalism. The dictionary defines this word as: Practices, methods, or spirit that are distinguished from an amateur.

Your thoughts?

Sadly all of the parents, yourself included, have now found out the true definition of Professional. You turned out far smarter than the rest of the parents, but you ALL got something special.

I know people that spent thousands of dollars on college degrees to find out what costs you only observational skills.
Just because it say Pro, don't mean it is. ALWAYS ASK FOR AND CHECK REFERENCES!!!!!

You did the right thing keeping your gear in the car.

Pete
 
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